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To think MN is suddenly full of hard right extremists?

179 replies

Manumission · 03/11/2016 11:31

I can't believe what I'm reading today.

Some of the comments of the bacon/mosque attack sentencing thread and also on the Jack Monroe/ sanction petition thread are just breathtakingly nasty. Other threads too.

What's happened? They aren't all new names. Some are. Is it an influx altering the mood here? Or does it reflect the national shift?

OP posts:
Manumission · 04/11/2016 07:35

It's just a different posting style, isn't it, netmums?

That's what I take it to mean - that simplistic Hun-laden posting style

OP posts:
Pistachiois50pmore · 04/11/2016 07:39

I'm fairly new to mumsnet (started reading regularly when I was pregnant last year) - if anyone's interested in the first impression of a newbie, I reckon it leans middle class and right-of-centre. Heteronormative, anti immigration, transphobic. But then again views which would have been seen as BNP/far right even ten years ago are increasingly given mainstream coverage, so mumsnet is hardly unique.

Pistachiois50pmore · 04/11/2016 07:43

I always thought there was an unspoken thing that mumsnet thought netmums (and calling people "hun") was common, which is kind of masked by pretending to think it was cheesy.

Lweji · 04/11/2016 07:48

But, then again, NM was very welcoming when Jeff shut down MN and many of us migrated (resurrected accounts) to the other side.

39up · 04/11/2016 08:06

Pistachiois50pmore - that's roughly where I'd place it too.

Madhairday · 04/11/2016 08:39

Not sure I've seen much hardline right stuff but I'd agree in that I've noticed a shift, op. There was a time not too long ago when MN felt a safe place for disabled people affected by austerity and wanting to discuss this but now it really doesn't (cf Jack Monroe thread). It actually feels pretty scary in places and a lot of the most vocal activists for people with disabilities have left due to being shouted down in some frankly disgusting ways. It even comes out on the buggies on buses/blue badge spaces- a certain shift.

Post Brexit has allowed the airing of views once suppressed.

Also agree it mirrors a societical shift

derxa · 04/11/2016 09:21

It's gone all net mums - esque. What does that actually mean? Is it intellectual snobbery which provokes comments like this?

BowieFan · 04/11/2016 09:44

Mumsnet has always been centre-right, I think. Heteronormative, socially conservative, middle-class - that type of thing. I think it's just that Brexit and the rise of UKIP has made it so that people feel like they can be more openly hostile with their views.

I don't see Brexit as a left/right issue. Although the majority of Brexiters were UKIP/Tory supporters, there were quite a few of my fellow left-wingers who voted Brexit because they didn't like the EU. I voted to remain personally but I don't think all Brexit voters are racists UNLESS they voted purely to get rid of foreigners.

myfavouritecolourispurple · 04/11/2016 09:46

I think there are a lot of very left-wing views on MN. It reflects the population at large.

BarInSpace · 04/11/2016 09:53

There's a lot of support for private education on MN, and that outlook isn't usually described as left-wing.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 04/11/2016 10:07

I veer from left on some issues and to the right on some (consistency not a strong point) so I find myself arguing with everyone at some time!

What I have found is that the quality of debate is changing on Mumsnet - yeah, that might be intellectual snobbery, but that's what I see. The Brexit discussions were a good example: Many leavers (and maybe some remainers too) were declaring strong opinions then being completely unwilling to justify, provide evidence, answer questions or engage at all. Instead, they called the people asking them 'bullies'.

I can't understand why, if you're on a discussion forum, you aren't prepared to discuss. I think that is a problem throughout society. People speak in headlines but show little understanding of what they are saying.

BillSykesDog · 04/11/2016 10:23

I think there are a lot of very left-wing views on MN. It reflects the population at large.

How have you worked this one out? I just do not understand where this left wing delusion comes from. Have you seen how Labour are polling at the moment now they've moved further to the left? 52% of votes at the last election were for the Conservatives, UKIP or other right wing parties. Even more Lib Dem votes (but we don't know how many) would have been votes in favour of the coalition.

Whenever Labour move left they collapse in elections. The British have almost always had a firm bias towards the centre right. I don't understand how the left manage to perpetuate this mass delusion amongst themselves that Britain is a left wing society that somehow has right wing governments forced on them when there is absolutely no evidence this is the case.

I suspect it's partly because they (despite what they proclaim) lead very insular lives where they only mix with similar people. And partly because the left has done such a great job of shouting down and intimidating people with views which are moderately to the right that they never actually realise that people hold different views from them because they're too scared to discuss them.

This thread is a perfect example of this by branding views which are slightly to the right as 'extreme right'. Another example is a thread I was ona few weeks ago where I was accused of saying that all immigrants should be repatriated, immigrant doctors should be sacked and the best thing about people was where they were born. I hadn't said any of that. In fact I'm married to an immigrant, firmly believe all EU citizens living here should and will have the right to stay regardless of Brexit and think immigrant doctors are a perfect example of positive immigration. But because I dared to voice a view moderately to the right and pro leave I was instantly some sort of jack booted proponent of gas chambers. It's not just an empty threat either. In some jobs, particularly in the public or third sector, even moderately right wing you can kiss goodbye to any hope of promotion and possibly even be sacked if they can get away with it. Even on here people on the left use the report button and deliberately goad people who don't share their views because they're desperate to silence anybody who won't toe their line.

I don't think society has shifted at all. I just think that people are starting to resist being scared into silence by the left wing and stand up and say what they think. I don't think that's a bad thing. The sooner the left can be shaken out of their mass delusion that they have the dominant view just because they've scared other people into silence.

JellyBelli · 04/11/2016 10:30

BillSykesDog
I just think that people are starting to resist being scared into silence by the left wing and stand up and say what they think.
Thats an interesting comment and it supports something I thought when the tories were voted out and Labourt came in. Back then, I got the impression that many people who's sympathies were with the right realised that Labour were going to be in for while so they went quiet and pretended to be left wing.

Thats why they are coming out of the woodwork now. But pretending that the left bully people into silence is obviously horse shit, since we dont go around doing things like throwing bacon at a mosque or painting swastikas all over a Jewish cemetary.

there are some deeply unpleasant comments made on many threads and when people are pulled up on them they scream 'I'm, being bullied'. No you are not, you are being challenged about treating other people like shit.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 04/11/2016 10:30

I think there are a lot of very left-wing views on MN. It reflects the population at large.

Sorry but that isn't true. Just look at the current polls. Each one is currently getting worse for Labour and Corbyn. Especially if you take into consideration that polls generally over estimate Labours position so the gap in reality is even worse.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 04/11/2016 10:31

I've been accused of being a Guardianista just because I said something kind! I found that outrageous!

birdybirdywoofwoof · 04/11/2016 10:38

But pretending that the left bully people into silence is obviously horse shit, since we dont go around doing things like throwing bacon at a mosque or painting swastikas all over a Jewish cemetary.

I have to disagree with that. You tell a left leaning person, that there is rising anti-antisemitism in the UK, their knee-jerk response is often 'You Zios, don't understand legitimate criticism of Israel.' I've seen it here and in real-life - a pernicious attempt to silence people.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 04/11/2016 10:39

anti-semitism, obviously!

BowieFan · 04/11/2016 10:48

BillSykesDog

The reason opinion polls say we're right wing is because the media is very right wing and hates anyone on the left and thus demonises them.

There was a survey done over the summer where they asked people about a few policies: E.g. taking rail lines back into public ownership as the franchise expires, £10 living wage, 50p tax rate on earnings over £150,000,capping rents based on location, size and inflation, and scrapping HS2. Support for all of these policies was huge, until the participants were told these were Corbyn policies.

Basically people like left wing ideas, they have just been conditioned against them by the press. The NHS is one of the most left-wing ideas in the world, and nobody but the very right-wing wants to get rid of it. The UK is a liberal country, but too many people are being swayed by Murdoch.

flippinada · 04/11/2016 10:56

birdy

I agree, it's a problem on the hard right and the hard left. Neither cover themselves in glory and both have more in common than they would ever admit.

The notion that right wing people are somehow scared to speak their minds is a bizarre one though. It''s an odd kind of left wing dominance which allows a majority right wing press and a right wing government in power.

derxa · 04/11/2016 11:33

I've been accused of being a Guardianista just because I said something kind! I found that outrageous! That is outrageous. People think their precious 'views' are more important than other people's feelings.

BillSykesDog · 04/11/2016 11:34

The reason opinion polls say we're right wing is because the media is very right wing and hates anyone on the left and thus demonises them.

Oh come on, that's ridiculous, it's not 1982. The print media has hugely diminished in importance and due to the internet we have more sources of information than ever before from all political angles to choose from. It also ignores the fact that people often consume media which reflects their own political views rather than simply blindly selecting media and then swallowing what it tells them. And it also goes back to the current left wing dogma that ordinary people are just too stupid to understand what is good for them and shouldn't be trusted. The left wing was set up precisely to challenge views like that and it's so depressing that it has been subverted to an extent that it is actually now supporting those sort of views.

There was a survey done over the summer where they asked people about a few policies: E.g. taking rail lines back into public ownership as the franchise expires, £10 living wage, 50p tax rate on earnings over £150,000,capping rents based on location, size and inflation, and scrapping HS2. Support for all of these policies was huge, until the participants were told these were Corbyn policies.

I'm aware of that survey and I don't think it's a very reliable one. It cherry picked the least controversial policies and left out any more difficult questions. Precisely because it was commissioned by the Media Reform Coalition who have a left wing agenda and set out to get the results they did. The poll only focused on financial policy, was simplistic, leadingly worded and asked questions which did not really contain much detail about what the answers meant, but in interpreting the results the MRC have extrapolated that those meanings were implicitly understood which I don't think is the case at all, so I wouldn't read to much into it. As an example, one question was 'are you in favour of austerity'. The word austerity in itself is a loaded one, and the question doesn't expand on the meaning. MRC have extrapolated that this means people are against benefit reform. But in fact in polls where it is made clearer that is the question then benefit reform always shows very clear public support.

Thats why they are coming out of the woodwork now. But pretending that the left bully people into silence is obviously horse shit, since we dont go around doing things like throwing bacon at a mosque or painting swastikas all over a Jewish cemetary.

Thank you for illustrating my point so wonderfully. Smile Describing other people's opinions as 'horse shit' and assuming that anything right of centre is immediately on the side of people throwing bacon at mosques and vandalising cemeteries is exactly what I mean. Incidentally these days I think the vandalising of Jewish cemeteries is much more likely to be done by left wingers, but that's beside the point.

You're using two criminal acts as examples of 'silencing' people. But the fact that they are criminal acts shows that nobody is silenced and in fact the full force of the state and the law condemns those actions. It doesn't prove anything about silencing going the other way. And you only really have to look at threads on here to see that.

Exactly as you have done and the OP has done, if someone expresses a view which is moderately right of centre then people on the left instantly stamp that person with the 'extreme' stamp and bring up things like bacon throwing or deportations and say 'Ah, you are not left wing so you are a racist facist'. Nobody wants to be associated with things like that, it can literally ruin your life and career. So people are just too frightened to voice moderately right wing views in public because of the vitriol that follows it. Exactly as you did in your post, associated the expressing if moderately right wing views instantly with extremist attacks.

tametempo · 04/11/2016 12:09

Totally agree BillSykesDog

I'm utterly sick to the back teeth of being accused of being a racist/ uneducated/ little Englander (delete as appropriate, or hey pick them all!) simply for voting Leave. I believe my reasons to be perfectly valid and balanced.
I do think there's been a shift, nationally towards people voicing their opinions that may be classed as more 'right wing' and I welcome that. We should all be encouraged to speak truthfully and without fear.

weresquirrel · 04/11/2016 13:16

In my experience of people who espouse left and right positions politically, the left are far more vocal about their causes but much meaner on a personal level - don't leave tips, etc. Right tend to be charitable and generous privately while taking a much harder line in public.

Totally agree with this ^. Seen it happen many times in rl.

weresquirrel · 04/11/2016 13:23

MN tends to be very financially comfortable, London centric and very lefty with an overarching attitude of knowing what is best for the plebs and very black and white opinions on most things and if you disagree you are a racist/xenophobe/Little Englander/Islamophobe/bigot*. I think there is a lot of myopia and projection that everywhere in the UK should have the same liberal "open minded" opinions as the London intelligensia and obviously if they don't they are the backwater Nazi yokel.

*delete as appropriate.

RortyCrankle · 04/11/2016 14:54

weresquirrel
MN tends to be very financially comfortable, London centric and very lefty with an overarching attitude of knowing what is best for the plebs and very black and white opinions on most things and if you disagree you are a racist/xenophobe/Little Englander/Islamophobe/bigot. I think there is a lot of myopia and projection that everywhere in the UK should have the same liberal "open minded" opinions as the London intelligensia and obviously if they don't they are the backwater Nazi yokel.*

Spot on. MN is full of Labour and Liberal luvvies who think nothing of responding to those who disagree with them with insults as described above - and worse. Many of them have a superiority complex which is a most unattractive trait. Only they know what is best, not just for themselves but for everyone else. The absurdity of their posts provide me with endless amusement Smile