To think MN is suddenly full of hard right extremists?

[Manumission]

I can't believe what I'm reading today.

Some of the comments of the bacon/mosque attack sentencing thread and also on the Jack Monroe/ sanction petition thread are just breathtakingly nasty. Other threads too.

What's happened? They aren't all new names. Some are. Is it an influx altering the mood here? Or does it reflect the national shift?

werkz I don't think that can be quite the source of my discomfort.

The "bien pensant middle class liberals" wouldn't issue me with a membership card

I think the problem is that any view which isn't left is defined on here as 'far right', even when it isn't.

People also tend to shift from talking about the general to specifics very quickly.

That's not what I meant rainy. By hard right, I meant a particularly harsh kind of extreme right view.

Of course, I don't know what anyone else means by it.

There's a difference too, between a neutrally expressed political opinion (of any stripe) and the gleeful spite that seems more common now.

I agree that it's become more noticeable but I'm not sure it's sudden. I think this reflects the fact that there has been a societal shift to the political right and that MN membership is more diverse so a wider range of views.

Also (as PP have stated) many people now feel comfortable expressing views they may previously have kept to themselves.

What has remained constant on here since I've been around (12 years and counting) are contrarian posters who complain forcefully and at length about not being able to talk about or express because . Mind you, they'll probably be here as long as MN is .

Left wing noble and giving. Right wing selfish and grasping? Not really that straight forward to me.

I'm very uncomfortable with the spread of Wahhabism as a relative of a gay teen who lives in an area where they live in fear of attacks from Muslim men who object to them walking in the street hand in hand with their partner. I am concerned about religion getting protected over the rights of women and gay people. Is that a right wing view?

Given the tension and strength of feeling around the EU Referendum and what has happened subsequently, it can hardly have come as a suprise to anyone that feelings were running high on both sides and that any discussion would therefore be very heated.

Left wing noble and giving. Right wing selfish and grasping? Not really that straight forward to me

Not that straightforward to me either, although some like to think it is.

Yes, I do feel like Brexit has allowed people to be more nasty and open with their right-wing views. I started the Jack Monroe petition thread and was shocked at people saying they wouldn't sign because they don't like her, or we spend too much on benefits etc.

It's disgusting that these people won't even sign a petition when people are bloody dying.

I did wonder how it hadn't dawned on any of the petition contributors that if they were embarrassed to share the fact that they held this view amongst their friends, maybe that should indicate something about that view?

What view? :)

Pre election MN was a padded echo chamber. Anyone not toeing the Labour Party line was basically called a cunt and sent packing. There's a much wider range of views on here now and I think it's healthier.

i got a shock reading the bacon post

In my experience of people who espouse left and right positions politically, the left are far more vocal about their causes but much meaner on a personal level - don't leave tips, etc. Right tend to be charitable and generous privately while taking a much harder line in public.

So I don't really think signing or not signing a petition is judgeworthy. And I'm sorry but Jack does come over as a bit of a fraud.

Yet a vocal majority of MN are anti trans in a way that would be unacceptable to be homophones, sexist etc

If you are a feminist who doesn't agree with men defining womanhood, that is not transphobic. If you think that free speech should not give way to religion, that is not racist. But I see these accusations thrown around freely. I also think that some people are so rude that they obviously just come on here to be obnoxious in a way no one would be in RL. It's the sheer rudeness for no reason at all, about absolute trivia that I find breathtaking, not differing opinions about things which are bound to divide opinion.

The Monroe thread was an eye opener. I didn't see anything too bad on the bacon thread though by the time I read it there were a few deleted posts.

I consider myself a lefty. However I appear to have very 'right-wing' views on transgender matters. As the left appear to be all 'lets bend over backwards to change laws that protect women', and I cannot go along with that.

Agreed that it's prudent to be very careful when considering transgender issues and that the rights of women need to be protected rather than chipped away.

Bowie I was open-mouthed reading your thread at how many posters were fiercely prioritising their dislike of Jack Monroe above the frankly disgusting way some disabled people have been treated by the government.

In which universe is it more important to try and stop someone you dislike promoting themselves, than it is to stand up for the vulnerable? Unbelievable.

User my experience in this is the opposite to yours, though I would also say there is a fair amount of inconsistency, probably across the board, in how some people behave privately versus how they present themselves in public.

EstelleRoberts

I got the feeling they wouldn't have signed anyway but they used Jack Monroe as an excuse. The fact that there were people on there saying that "some people will die - so what?" and that they didn't care a man died of hunger in 2016 just worried and upset me.

I am not sure I would ascribe the change to left or right wing views. I think people are becoming less tolerant and more dogmatic on both sides of the political debate. In my view, the extremes of left and right aren't that different from each other, the both think they know best and want to impose their view of the world on everyone.

I am a sort of liberal centerist agree a bit with both sides type and both sides make me wince from time to time. (they probably find me annoyingly wishy washy or something)

Bowie it was the callous comments like that that shocked me too. You might be right that the JM thing was just a handy excuse.

How did we get to a place where people don't care about this kind of thing?

Could someone give me a link to the JM petition, please? I'd like to sign.

I disagree that MN has ever been a left wing echo chamber, although some people mght perceive it that way. Posters of a certain vintage will remember a self -declared extreme right winger who was very prolific. They weren't shouting into the void either.

" In my view, the extremes of left and right aren't that different from each other.."

Absolutely Chaz.

Maybe but Also think mumsnet is far more interesting than it used to be 10 years ago when basically everyone posted from the same left wing perspective and those not in the North London club that met up in RL were frankly bullied. Yes you know who you are.

Much prefer it now as debates are sharper and views diverse.

It's reflecting the country and that's healthy. Strong debate is healthy in a denocracy and on here.