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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a ridiculous use of detention?

84 replies

oldbirdy · 02/11/2016 18:32

Ds (year 8) got detention today. He was 3 minutes late for school. This was the first time he has been late; he goes with a friend and the friend's mum hadn't realised the car would need de-icing. I assume this is done kind of zero tolerance but to me it devalues detention as I have had to tell ds it doesn't matter, and he thinks it is stupid. I would have wanted detention to make him feel a bit ashamed of himself and for something that was significant. If he was very late, or had been late a number of times, fair enough...

OP posts:
toffee1000 · 02/11/2016 19:31

The thing is, though, if detentions are dished out for every tiniest thing it devalues them. My brother's school and my school were very different in this regard: my brother's school sounds more like your DS's (instant detention for being late once) whereas at my school it was more a gradual punishment system, ie you only get a detention if you're persistently late. I'd always considered detentions to be quite a serious punishment only dealt out when you've been persistently late or have forgotten homework numerous times etc, rather than something that gets dished out for the smallest thing. I can see why zero tolerance may be useful but it can be taken in a rather extreme manner sometimes.

Chinlo · 02/11/2016 19:32

Firstly, an hour of pay would only be docked for being a minute late in SOME jobs. Not most.

Secondly, school is a place for educating our kids, not a workplace bootcamp. I hate this idea that school should be implementing the ridiculous rules that some jobs have in an effort to prepare our kids for mindless jobs. That's not their purpose.

OP, it is dumb. I guess I would use the opportunity to teach my child that people or institutions in positions of power often like to abuse that power with no real logical reason. And that there are times when you have to just accept it gracefully while acknowledging the absurdity of the situation.

SuperPug · 02/11/2016 19:34

From your perspective it is very unfair - clearly, your son had no control over being late.
However, I respect schools which enforce this. Your son is obviously telling the truth but unfortunately, there will be other students who continually make up excuses which are impossible to check, eroding the importance of being punctual.
It is unfair for your son, but as a general principle it works. Schools already have enough to fit in - we have detentions where I teach and it make a difference, in terms of the small handful of pupils who attempt to come in late and deliberately disrupt a class. Again, I'm aware your son wasn't doing this but there would be an inevitable outcry of unfairness if your son wasn't punished for lateness and others were.

PberryT · 02/11/2016 19:39

I understand your point OP but try being the member of staff (or multiple members of staff) who deal with this daily. It's impossible to know who are the "regulars" and who are the one offs with a sob story, particularly if it isn't the same member of staff on duty every day.

Therefore a blanket policy is applied.

I do the same with homework, no homework is detention regardless of the excuse. If anything the other mother should have written a quick note to explain the lateness. How does school know your son isn't lying? (believe me kids lie!).

leccybill · 02/11/2016 19:39

It's unfortunate but schools have to operate with systems and rules because there's anything upto 2000 kids to manage at any one time.

The poor admin person standing with the late book/clipboard won't have all of the data on who has done how many lates detentions before to hand, so a blanket enforcement of the rule is the quickest and easiest way to be seen to be tackling poor punctuality.

At my place, they lose the first half of lunch on that same day.

WyfOfBathe · 02/11/2016 19:40

Where I teach, the students don't get a detention for their first late of the year, and then get 15 minutes for the second, 30 minutes for the third and an hour for any subsequent lates. Persistent lateness also gets a phonecall home and sometimes having to sign in 15 minutes before registration for set number of days.

I much prefer this as it gives the students one chance for a genuine unavoidable situation and then builds up to punish persistent offenders.

A detention for being late once is, in my own opinion, a bit over the top. I could be late to work once (with a good reason) and not get in trouble - nobody would be docking my pay.

WyfOfBathe · 02/11/2016 19:41

And for those who say it can't be tracked, all late marks are tallied automatically on our computer system.

GeorgeTheThird · 02/11/2016 19:41

I don't know why you "had to" tell him it didn't matter. You could have backed up the school. It takes three minutes to de ice a car so your friend is obviously leaving right on the last minute. It would be better if she were to set off 5 mins earlier to make sure it doesn't happen again.

YelloDraw · 02/11/2016 19:48

An hours pay would be docked in a job if employees are late.

No, it wouldn't. That would be an unlawful deduction of wages.

Milklollies · 02/11/2016 19:48

George the third I think you're bonkers for suggesting the op back up a ridiculous stance on the schools part, like a pp said some schools have a policy of one chance, 15, 30 min detention sounds fairer to me.

HummusForBreakfast · 02/11/2016 19:49

Actually YOU have taught him it's unfair.
It's pretty normal that he isn't happy with the detention and pretty normal he feels it's unfair.
But by siding with him and telling him yep the school was around, you've now created a situation where he thinks detentions are given for no reason at all.

I would have backed th school.
Yes it's crap but that's the rule. I suppose his friend ended with a detention too?

The issue with not being harsh and it is out of your control so ... is that you end up with some children always been late 'because the school bus/the person driving me/whoever could be at fault was late'.
That's what is happening at my dcs school and some children are very clearly regular offenders.

Original poster
oldbirdy · 02/11/2016 19:50

Answering a couple of points: the Mum went in with the boys to say it was her fault. She also texted me to apologise and warn me! Poor woman.
George the third I wasn't going to back up the school because the person to 'blame' was his friend's mum who very kindly takes him to school sometimes, and had I agreed that being late this morning was unacceptable it would have made him 'blame' her for getting him a detention. What I actually said was that it was bad luck but if he wants to be in control of getting to school on time, he should get himself up when his alarm goes off and walk, instead of lying in bed for half an hour playing on his phone and then going in the car with his buddy.

OP posts:
AVirginLitTheCandle · 02/11/2016 19:50

Going a bit OT here but this thread has reminded me of an incident where a teacher "gave" me detention which was set for the next day. However I left school after lunch that day as I had an orthodontist appointment in the afternoon so the detention slip never made it's way to me and nobody told me about it. So of course I failed to turn up for the detention the next day as I didn't know I had one.

The next week I was sent to see the head of year to ask why I hadn't shown up at the detention and to also give me another longer detention as punishment for missing it. I realised what must have happened and the head of year was understanding about it. He then told me to just forget about it and not to bother doing the second detention. He even ripped the detention slip up in front of me.

Throughout the next couple of weeks I kept getting sent up to the deputy head's office and quizzed about why I hadn't shown up for detention the day before. Detentions which were all for missing the first two despite being told not to do them and despite not being told I had been given more detentions on top of that. Each time I would explain what had happened and each time I was told not to worry and it would be sorted.

In the end my parents received a letter telling them I was going to be put in isolation for two weeks for not bothering to turn up to all those detentions I had "missed" Confused

It was very strange.

Chinlo · 02/11/2016 19:51

Actually YOU have taught him it's unfair

Right. She taught him that something unfair is unfair.

AVirginLitTheCandle · 02/11/2016 19:53

Sorry I should clarify that - I kept being given detention over the next few weeks for missing the first two but nobody bothered to inform me about them. The first I would hear about them was when I was called up to the deputy head's office and quizzed about why I had missed them.

Was I supposed to be a mind reader?

Original poster
oldbirdy · 02/11/2016 19:54

hummus I haven't actually said that, see above...

I told him it was bad luck but if he wants to ensure he is in time he should get himself there by walking.

I haven't told him I think the school is being ridiculous. But equally I can hardly come down on him like a ton of bricks as I would if he had been given a detention for, say, swearing or misbehaving. So for him detention has been trivialised.

OP posts:
budgiegirl · 02/11/2016 19:56

While it does seem a bit harsh for a first offence, if they were 3 minutes late because of de-icing the car, they must be cutting it very fine every day. And I guess the school have a zero tolerance policy on it to stop lots of students wandering in 'a few minutes late'.

I'd tell him it's fair as he was late, and that broke the rule. But I'd also stress that I wasn't cross about it (either with him, or the school). Maybe they should leave a little earlier, to allow for any problems.

Original poster
oldbirdy · 02/11/2016 19:59

It was a combination of de icing the car and heavier than usual traffic....probably a bunch of people running late from de-icing their cars!

Like I can ring friend's mum and advise her to ensure she leaves earlier when she does the huge favour of taking my boy to school sometimes Hmm

OP posts:
budgiegirl · 02/11/2016 20:03

Like I can ring friend's mum and advise her to ensure she leaves earlier when she does the huge favour of taking my boy to school sometimes

Fair enough, I'd just chalk it up as one of those things, especially if it's never happened before. I don't think it trivialises detentions though, it just shows that the school is quite strict on this matter.

Chinlo · 02/11/2016 20:07

Sounds like you did the right thing. You agreed with him that it may be a stupid rule, but told him that he has to accept it and that's that. No drama.

Witchend · 02/11/2016 21:07

And if he'd been let off because "needed to defrost the car" then I'll bet the excuse would have been repeated the next (cold) day he's late.

Psychomumsucks · 02/11/2016 23:16

I find it shocking how so many of you are saying life is unfair suck it up.. if I've been wronged I will not suck it up I'll defend myself you get to defend yourself in court for a crime so why should you suck it up because it is school related?

Careforadrink · 03/11/2016 01:27

Yanbu.

Too harsh and unfair decisions like this begin to breed resentment. I wouldnt have backed the school.

Trifleorbust · 03/11/2016 03:13

You don't have to 'back up the school'. He was late so he has to do the detention, same as every other child who was late. If you don't think it is fair because it wasn't his fault, then make that point, but those are the rules and the reality is it is not ever going to be the fault of the child when the car needs de-icing; it is usually the fault of the adult who didn't allow more time. Such is life.

Yakitori · 03/11/2016 04:18

An hours pay would be docked in a job if employees are late.

Only if you have a shit job.

It's well over the top and an inappropriate use of detention, OP. When you are 8 you have very little control over how you get to school and at what time. I would be livid if this happened to my 11 year old DD, as she is reliant on a bus to get to school and is only late if the bus is.

I would complain to the school about their ridiculous policy. Lateness should be a matter the school takes up with parents, and only when it is chronic and problematic, not as a one off. They certainly shouldn't be punishing children for something which is beyond their control.

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