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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What is reasonable with this money from PILs in our marriage breakup?

133 replies

SadieAmberson1960 · 31/10/2016 14:09

I apologise in advance: this is long, but I don't want to drip feed.

Before we bought our house, PILs gave husband £30k. I wanted him to put it in a pension for himself, but he wanted to use it towards the house. So we used it as our house deposit. We bought the house for £150k, with the £30k deposit and a £120k mortgage. We then built up a lot of loan/credit card debt and so we lent £30k against the mortgage to consolidate debts, giving us a £150k mortgage - the original house purchase/value. We subsequently couldn't afford the mortgage repayments, so switched to interest-only on the mortgage.

Ten years later, we had built up more debts and we still owed £150k on the mortgage. But I had taken sole control of managing our money and cleared all our debts by careful credit card snowballing. I switched our mortgage from the terrible interest rate we were paying and got us a much better rate on repayment so we could start paying back the £150k mortgage. I also did a ton of research into investing and sorted us both out with pensions, S&S ISAs and cash ISAs. I did all the legwork and research: husband did nothing apart from sign things I put in front of him.

Another seven years on, we have no debts, have a nice stash of savings and pensions and are paying down the mortgage: thanks to all my efforts.

A few years ago PILs gave husband another £60k. Again I suggested it go into his pension, but he wanted to use it on the house. We spent £20k on the house: updating decor, new windows and doors, and a new drive, fencing, plants, and so on. We used the rest to overpay the mortgage.

We are now splitting up. The house is worth £350k. We have £270k in equity in it. Husband wants to stay in the house and I want to move out. The pensions and savings are simple enough to deal with: we have equal amounts in each of our names anyway. That leaves us with the £270k house equity to split and the question of the money his parents gave him.

There is nothing tangible to show of the original £30k. We did use it as a house deposit 15 years ago, but we took the equivalent amount back out of the mortgage to consolidate debts. Those debts were from things like cars that we no longer own, holidays, a computer we no longer have.

I've proposed we take off at least £40k from the £270k equity and then split the remaining £230k. Thus giving husband back the £40k from his parents that we overpaid on the mortgage. As he's staying in the house, he gets to keep the benefit of the other £20k from his parents that we spent on it.

He has proposed we take off £90k from the £270k: the original £30k from his parents plus the later £60k - leaving us with a remaining £180k to split equally.

I have no idea what would be reasonable here. While I know I'm officially entitled to a straight 50:50 split of everything, I'm certainly not after his parents money: after all, my original suggestion for both money gifts were for them to go into a pension for him only (and if that had happened, I wouldn't take half his pension now we're splitting up). But that original £30k doesn't exist anymore as we have nothing tangible to show for it, and £20k of the second lot of money was spent on the house that he's keeping. I do appreciate, however, that the equity that we do have is likely greater because of the £20k we spent on it and also because we could 'afford' a bigger house with having a £30k deposit in the first place. On the other hand, the reason I mentioned above all the work I did to get us out of debt and research into investing is because we wouldn’t have this level of money to split if it wasn’t for the efforts I put into our finances.

What do you think would be reasonable?

OP posts:
FasterThanASnakeAndAMongoose · 31/10/2016 18:31

I think 50:50 is fair and what you have proposed is very generous.

TheRaspberryPhantomFlanFlinger · 31/10/2016 18:38

50/50

The money may have been a gift, but one that could easily have been lost without your financial management.

If you're feeling generous the £40k is the max I'd offer, but I'd start from 50/50 and negotiate.

From your posts, it looks like any amicability is already beginning to fade from his side, but don't let any guilt you may feel push you into losing out. He'll still have the house, and from what you say his earning potential is on the increase, so don't let him push you into a rash decision.

WizzardHat · 31/10/2016 19:09

Surely 90k divided between two people = 45k each. I'd think the original 30k (15 each) is gone too. Maybe a proportion of the remaining 30k would be fair.

SadieAmberson1960 · 31/10/2016 19:17

At the moment we've left it at his "counter" proposal of £90k (I say "counter proposal", but it was more an expectation of that's what will happen). I just tried to be noncommittal and said, "Well let's mull it over and talk again in a few days".

I do think you're right that things will start to sour if I say no to the £90k. He's historically been very irritable when I don't fall in line with him, and that irritability has worked for him many times in the past as I've accordingly adjusted my behaviour.

OP posts:
Allalonenow · 31/10/2016 20:14

Now that you have explained a little more about the reasons for your split, I can understand why you have made him such a generous offer, ATM I would say that you are motivated by guilt.

Standard advice to anyone divorcing a partner who has been unfaithful etc, is to come to financial terms quickly to take advantage of their window of guilt. In a way this is how you are now feeling, added to the fact that he seems to be quite controlling and manipulating you with emotional blackmail.

I'd say delay a financial settlement for a short while until you can see clearly just what your future holds for you, so you have done the right thing in not agreeing to anything at all so soon.

I think you should talk to a solicitor ASAP, and I would put any hopes of an amicable divorce out of your mind, you already know he will get angry if you stand up to him.

You are probably only in your 30s or 40s so you have a whole life ahead of you to enjoy. Thanks

IAmNotAWitch · 31/10/2016 20:16

Retract your offer and get a lawyer.

Women screw themselves over in divorces in order to be nice, to do the right thing etc.

Men don't.

No more offers/counter offers. GET a lawyer or you are going to get screwed.

RepentAtLeisure · 31/10/2016 20:27

It doesn't matter if things sour. You're leaving the marriage and moving on. It doesn't matter if his parents disapprove. Who cares? If you lose his friendship because you took what was rightfully yours, you never had it really. So many women go for the 'amicable' settlement, only for their ex's to drop any pretense at friendship once it's all sorted anyway.

CalleighDoodle · 31/10/2016 20:27

50/50

hollyisalovelyname · 31/10/2016 20:29

Do 50/50 but tell his parents about the scrimping and saving because he was a spendthrift.

SadieAmberson1960 · 31/10/2016 20:38

Thank you, that's very kind. Yes I'm in my mid 40s Smile Just had a nice glass of wine and feeling a bit better.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 31/10/2016 20:52

I do think you're right that things will start to sour if I say no to the £90k. He's historically been very irritable when I don't fall in line with him, and that irritability has worked for him many times in the past as I've accordingly adjusted my behaviour.

Please don't allow yourself to be bullied into something that is not in your best interests.

Richardhun · 31/10/2016 20:53

I also think you are in the guilt phase. Which will cost you ££££ and you will regret later.

He earns loads more now...that also has a bearing.

Personally I would explain that the solicitor has advised you that 50/50 is more normal. He will jump at half plus the 40kthen.

Werkzallhourz · 31/10/2016 20:55

After a marriage of ten years and a relationship of 20, I'd say 50:50.

My suspicion would be that he's trying it on in a move to dissuade you from seeking the divorce by frightening you with the notion of ring-fencing the £90k before you split assets.

The idea that he could "claim" ownership of the original £20K is pretty ludicrous considering that you remortgaged to repay joint debts, as is the claim for the money that went into renovating the house that he will continue to live in and benefit from his share of the increased value.

Money given to married couples is a marital asset; it doesn't matter where it has come from.

WhataHexIgotinto · 31/10/2016 21:52

I think 50:50. My parents gave us money a few years ago and if we split up I would dream of expecting that back. It was a gift to me and I chose to spend it on our house.

MillionToOneChances · 31/10/2016 22:10

50/50 is fair.

£40k back to him then 50/50 would also be fair.

Other options involving you getting less would not be fair.

Other options involving you getting more to account for the cost of stamp duty and solicitors fees on your next home might be fair.

Don't let him bully you into accepting less. This is just one last difficult conversation. You're not robbing him blind, you're insinuating on your share of wealth you created from a man who earns three times your salary. You will have very significant costs associated with finding a new home that he will not have. Stand firm. Get a fair share. Even if it goes to court your share of the court costs wouldn't be more than he's trying to grump you out of.

MillionToOneChances · 31/10/2016 22:10

*insisting on!

ImperialBlether · 31/10/2016 22:30

I think where it might be right to give him more money is if he earned much less than you, had an illness which meant he had to stop working, if he didn't have a pension and you did, etc. As it is now, I think you should split it 50-50.

SheDoneAlreadyDoneHadHerses · 31/10/2016 22:36

I believe that a solicitor will tell you that if the house is in joint names it's 50/50 regardless of who put what in where.

I'd advise STBXH of this and go no further than offering him £40K if I had to. Personally, I'd be sticking with the letter of the law as you've put a load of groundwork in to get you both in the financially happy place you're in.

Propertyquandry · 31/10/2016 22:47

Please don't agree to the 90k. It is very likely that despite being friends now, you will end up on less than friendly terms at the end and you may kick yourself when you finally emerge from feeling guilty to realise he's shafted you by laying his passive aggressive threats on thickly. The first 30k paid off joint debts not* your debts alone. Why does he believe he should not have contributed to that?

Chikara · 31/10/2016 22:52

I would be pretty pissed off if my parent's gave me £100k and I ended up losing it because a marriage didn't work out.

I'd give him the 90k back and split to rest of the equity 50/50

Propertyquandry · 31/10/2016 22:58

Chikara, but he's already spent the first 30k paying off debt. Or should the op have burdened that herself?
And 20k of the next 60k was used to renovate the house he will continue to live in and benefit from financially (as it will be the op and not her DH who needs to find more stamp duty).

Are you actually saying that the paying off of the debt and the home improvements which came directly from the 60k, should all be paid for by the op? Because by saying he should get 50k of that money back that they (inc him) have already spent on things they could not have done without the money, that's what's you're effectively saying.

Graceflorrick · 31/10/2016 23:01

50-50, irrespective of who has put what in. He is bu by asking for extra money.

Graceflorrick · 31/10/2016 23:03

Just to add, I put around 50k into our home at the start. I wouldn't expect it back in divorce I'd expect to split.

thetoothfairywhoforgot · 31/10/2016 23:28

You need to think about your future situation. Will you be able to buy a property? Given you have both made significant contributions to get to your current situations, it seems to me that you should come out with equal 'benefits'. If he keeps the home and you end up renting you will be much, much worse off in the long run. And I suspect you have provided a lot of support to get him to the situation where he earns 3x your salary. You also need to consider the costs of moving and buying a new property.

I agree with the PP who points out that you made financial decisions based on the gifts. You probably wouldn't have taken the sames ones without it.

I think 50:50 is fairest.

Harriedharriet · 01/11/2016 01:12

I am getting annoyed now! Did he say "well darling, my retirement and future are assured because of all that research and due diligence you did so let me give you an extra.......? We actually have something to fight over because you did x y and z?

Seriously.

50/50

Come on now. Behave. Deep breath, stand up straight, shoulders back and straight, fair split.

(Had two Vodkas and they suit me!)

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