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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What is reasonable with this money from PILs in our marriage breakup?

133 replies

SadieAmberson1960 · 31/10/2016 14:09

I apologise in advance: this is long, but I don't want to drip feed.

Before we bought our house, PILs gave husband £30k. I wanted him to put it in a pension for himself, but he wanted to use it towards the house. So we used it as our house deposit. We bought the house for £150k, with the £30k deposit and a £120k mortgage. We then built up a lot of loan/credit card debt and so we lent £30k against the mortgage to consolidate debts, giving us a £150k mortgage - the original house purchase/value. We subsequently couldn't afford the mortgage repayments, so switched to interest-only on the mortgage.

Ten years later, we had built up more debts and we still owed £150k on the mortgage. But I had taken sole control of managing our money and cleared all our debts by careful credit card snowballing. I switched our mortgage from the terrible interest rate we were paying and got us a much better rate on repayment so we could start paying back the £150k mortgage. I also did a ton of research into investing and sorted us both out with pensions, S&S ISAs and cash ISAs. I did all the legwork and research: husband did nothing apart from sign things I put in front of him.

Another seven years on, we have no debts, have a nice stash of savings and pensions and are paying down the mortgage: thanks to all my efforts.

A few years ago PILs gave husband another £60k. Again I suggested it go into his pension, but he wanted to use it on the house. We spent £20k on the house: updating decor, new windows and doors, and a new drive, fencing, plants, and so on. We used the rest to overpay the mortgage.

We are now splitting up. The house is worth £350k. We have £270k in equity in it. Husband wants to stay in the house and I want to move out. The pensions and savings are simple enough to deal with: we have equal amounts in each of our names anyway. That leaves us with the £270k house equity to split and the question of the money his parents gave him.

There is nothing tangible to show of the original £30k. We did use it as a house deposit 15 years ago, but we took the equivalent amount back out of the mortgage to consolidate debts. Those debts were from things like cars that we no longer own, holidays, a computer we no longer have.

I've proposed we take off at least £40k from the £270k equity and then split the remaining £230k. Thus giving husband back the £40k from his parents that we overpaid on the mortgage. As he's staying in the house, he gets to keep the benefit of the other £20k from his parents that we spent on it.

He has proposed we take off £90k from the £270k: the original £30k from his parents plus the later £60k - leaving us with a remaining £180k to split equally.

I have no idea what would be reasonable here. While I know I'm officially entitled to a straight 50:50 split of everything, I'm certainly not after his parents money: after all, my original suggestion for both money gifts were for them to go into a pension for him only (and if that had happened, I wouldn't take half his pension now we're splitting up). But that original £30k doesn't exist anymore as we have nothing tangible to show for it, and £20k of the second lot of money was spent on the house that he's keeping. I do appreciate, however, that the equity that we do have is likely greater because of the £20k we spent on it and also because we could 'afford' a bigger house with having a £30k deposit in the first place. On the other hand, the reason I mentioned above all the work I did to get us out of debt and research into investing is because we wouldn’t have this level of money to split if it wasn’t for the efforts I put into our finances.

What do you think would be reasonable?

OP posts:
SueTrinder · 31/10/2016 16:13

I think over a long relationship like yours it has to be 50:50. If he wanted the gift from his parents to be kept separate then he should have had a mortgage agreement with you that acknowledged that.

And. FWIW, you have the right to a share of his pension as well so even if he'd put it in the pension you could have a share of it if that's what you wanted.

chilipepper20 · 31/10/2016 16:13

I think it's difficult.

if it was a loan, I'd say you have to knock the whole 90k off. if it was a gift, then isn't that split 50:50? Not just legally, but morally? Basically, if you are married, don't you just split all assets 50:50? why would a gift from PILs be different?

SadieAmberson1960 · 31/10/2016 16:13

So working out the differences in earnings over the 20 years, we've put in about the same. Obviously the massive success of his business this past year means that if we stayed together any longer then his earnings would far outweigh my contribution. But up until now, about the same.

OP posts:
SadieAmberson1960 · 31/10/2016 16:17

A pp suggested that you give the first 30k back because without it, you wouldn't have a house but without the op sorting their finances out they very likely wouldn't have a house left either.

We did put our house up for sale at the peak of our debts as it just wasn't sustainable anymore. At one point we were making mortgage payments on a credit card. But the house didn't sell and it was then that I took control of our finances. Once I'd cleared a couple of the highest interest credit cards, we took the house back off the market.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 31/10/2016 16:19

Can I ask a very personal question in terms of what caused the split? It's just you are being generous and he is being the opposite. Do you feel you "owe " him something i.e. Were you the one to leave? Or think if you play nice he will come back? Is there maybe something more at play here in terms of your own feelings that is causing you to be generous in terms of your split or his own feelings causing him to be less so?

Helenluvsrob · 31/10/2016 16:25

Your way or the courts and sure as eggs is eggs you'll spend a significant sum trying to sort it out anyway :(

AcrossthePond55 · 31/10/2016 16:26

50/50 split. Then if you feel like giving your PiLs a percentage of your half, do so. Personally, if they aren't asking for it back, I'd let it go. I certainly wouldn't lessen my 50% to allow my ex to receive a higher percentage. After all, HE didn't put the money in, why should he get the benefit of it?

SadieAmberson1960 · 31/10/2016 16:31

Bluntness 100, Oh so many things Sad I instigated it all. He didn't want this. We were unhappy, but he is very passive and doesn't like change so he was still happy to carry on as we were. I do feel very bad. We had great plans for retirement and so on.

My many reasons include that he's passive-aggressive, he's very negative, he won't talk about anything meaningful/feelings, he makes me feel tense/anxious, he complains a lot, sees the worse in people, doesn't see the positives in life. He does have lovely qualities that kept me with him for 20 years though! We are great pals and get on very well and enjoy each other's company. It's just the negativity got worse as he got older and it wore me down. Oh and we're not intimate anymore. We really are just like friends sharing a house rather than a married couple.

OP posts:
SuperFlyHigh · 31/10/2016 16:33

Ah now I see from your last post why he's being petty and mean. Mediation can be offered in some divorce cases.

derxa · 31/10/2016 16:39

50/50 Where the money comes from in a marriage is an irrelevance.

IhatchedaSnorlax · 31/10/2016 16:56

I agree with inthenick too - your proposal is very generous given you're married & the length of time you've been together so either £40k or 50/50 split or let the courts decide. Good luck as it sounds like it could all get very nasty with him.

RepentAtLeisure · 31/10/2016 16:59

I'd go for 50/50, and if it goes to court I'd imagine that's what you'd get anyway - minus lawyer fees for you both of course.

Don't feel pressured into taking less than is rightfully yours because of his temperament.

hollyisalovelyname · 31/10/2016 17:09

OP Are his parents aware how hard you worked on getting your finances back on track ?

SadieAmberson1960 · 31/10/2016 17:13

Holly, no they are not. They don't know we were in debt and nearly lost the house either.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 31/10/2016 17:19

The thing is that if it goes to court, you will share 50-50 anyway. That money was given to him when you were married and it was ages ago - years ago!

ImperialBlether · 31/10/2016 17:20

And I think that given his higher earnings now, he can afford to let you off that money, too.

hollyisalovelyname · 31/10/2016 17:41

OP because his parents don't know how hard you worked to sort out the finances they might consider you a bit 'grabby'
Are you ok with that?

happypoobum · 31/10/2016 17:43

It's 50/50. So long as you were married when PILS gave him the money, it immediately became a marital asset.

Harriedharriet · 31/10/2016 17:44

OP will incur expenses moving on. He will not. The hoose will, hopefully, continue to increase in value. OP created considerabke wealth for her partner, the benifits of which he will have many years down the road.
I do not see Moral Obligation here. A gift was given. It was accepted. Discussions were had and decisions made by the recipients, two adults.
$40,000 is ample. You need to think of your next stage, finding a home etc. In fact, $40,000 is very generous.
Goodluck OP

Harriedharriet · 31/10/2016 17:45

Lots of typos! Sorry. On a phone and no specs! Grin

AppleAndBlackberry · 31/10/2016 17:45

I think although his parents gave you 90k you wouldn't necessarily have 90k less equity if they hadn't. E.g. there might have been holidays you didn't take, large purchases that you didn't buy etc in order to get the house you wanted. What the actual figure is is impossible to say. You overpaid the mortgage by 40k so I'd give him that as a minimum, probably not the full 90 though. 60 might be fair. Where do you think you would be if you hadn't had the 90k?

ImperialBlether · 31/10/2016 17:46

I agree that your costs in moving out should be taken into account.

TowerRavenSeven · 31/10/2016 17:48

50/50.

Icapturethecast1e · 31/10/2016 18:06

I think you should suggest 50:50 split of the house. He had the money to invest but you kept the finances in control in order to keep the house. You should talk to your PIL & explain everything to them.
I'm wondering if you were a SAHM would you still be entitled to 50:50 of the house under those same circumstances.

Theoretician · 31/10/2016 18:17

If neither of you agree on the first figure (and accompanying justification) offered by the other, it's probably not worth arguing further with each other, as you're unlikely to reach agreement, maybe you can save yourself some stress and let someone else decide. I'm not sure how it works, or what it costs, but maybe you can go to arbitration. Sell it to him as instead of the two of you arguing, you just each tell an independent lawyer what you think is fair, and he makes a legally binding decision on what should happen.