To wonder why HV still peddle bad advice?

[Endoftheroad16]

Specifically regarding using electric socket covers!
My HV asked if I was using them and seemed horrified when I said that I wasn't. I asked her to do some research as they are not safe for use with UK sockets. She said she would but I got the impression she thought I was a fool.

I thought the NHS had updated their advice on this?

13A electrical socket inserts should not be used in health or social care premises, nor supplied for use in a home or residence.

Where does it say it's against NHS guidelines to recommend these to parents in their home?

It clearly says they should not be used in the specified premises. It has NOTHING to do with what HV advise people to do in their own home.

It advises cascading to dentists and GPs. It says NOThING about what HV should be telling their clients.

I used socket covers, most people I know did. DH jammed a key into a socket when he was a baby and was sent flying across the room, he could have slammed into a wall and be killed. I did my own risk assessment, and used them with no problem.

Blue, why be so obtuse?

Did you miss the important bit - "...nor supplied for use in a home or residence."

Clearly stating that they do NOT recommend them for use. HV is advising the opposite.

No, it says they can not supply them. I'm not being obtuse, it's a crap link that proves nothing yet it's being used to bash HVs.

The problem with HVs is that although they are professionals they don't study anything deeply enough to really have a firm grasp of all of it. If you think about any other job in the medical profession they specialise - health visitors should have to maybe choose between specialising in nutrition or medical or neonates. I have heard a lot terrible advice on so many issues but it is not entirely their fault. Also, the ones that do specialise, in infant feeding, for example, are usually the best.

Surely it's bloody obvious? It specifically says that socket covers can overcome built in safety features, and therefore should not be used or supplied, and that covers currently in use should be withdrawn and disposed of. Are health professional not meant to have the brains to generalise that information and work out that they are not safe to use in any context.

As for the distribution list - do you imagine the guidance is meant to go to clinical commissioning groups and GPs to sit on their desks, or would you expect the information to be disseminated and cascaded further? The separate articles to which people have linked demonstrate that other people managed to work out that it was guidance which would have general application to the use of socket covers in all contexts.

As PP have pointed out, this was hardly new guidance - the information has been in the public domain for years.

Matching, you are ignoring perhaps the most salient point: if you seriously maintain that HVs could not be expected to access basic information about the products they advise parents to use, then surely the corollary is that they should not be giving that advice. In what other field would you suggest it is acceptable for professionals giving out advice not to bother to check that it is correct?

If you want tp be pedantic, it also says that inserts currently in use should be disposed of. It says the information should be cascaded to GPs. Inference being that would be information to share with all HCPs not just GPs. It is a safety point that is important.
Some HVs are shit. Same as any other profession. The information should have been advertised much more openly, the HV should either ensure that she is up to date or not offer advice in the first place.

You said that so much more eloquently, LadyConstance!

I completely disagree. I think it's ridiculous to pull out a random document and use it as evidence that HV should've seen it and should've taken the advice for NHS premises and cascaded it into private homes. I think you're being pedantic and I think you are using an incredibly loose link to prove something you couldn't possibly prove.

But well, we're clearly never going to agree so nothing more to say really.

My hv gave me a packet of socket covers and i put them in as she told me they were safe to use to prevent my son putting his fingers in the sockets. Im shocked to see they arent actually safe and i will be taking them out right now

Maybe the HV was busy reading up on new guidance regarding how to spot signs of abuse in children, how to support a mother with severe PND, or perhaps how to manage anaphylaxis in an immunised baby or undertake CPR. But unfortunately she misses the guidance on socket covers and she's hung out to dry by the mumsnet jury.

BTW, the advice not to use safety covers has been widely available since at least 2003 ( when I was baby proofing for DC1). It really isn't cutting edge or new information.

YANBU. If HV's aren't experts on home safety they shouldn't be giving advice. They could simply direct new parents to the appropriate experts such as ROSPA who do not recommend socket covers.

This would allow them to focus on the areas they are experts in.

Look, I'm an 'incredibly busy professional' in a field that doesn't involve advising other people on their babies and children and I've been aware of the socket issue for ages.

However the point here is that the HV (a) felt knowledgeable enough on the issue to advise OP what to do, unasked and as t turns out incorrectly and (b) by OP's account maintained that she was correct for a while before grudgingly saying she'd check, giving the impression she was doling out officially-sanctioned advice rather than her own (incorrect) opinion.

It's really not ok to defend HVs giving out potentially dangerous advice just because they're busy. If it's an area they're unsure about or haven't updated their knowledge recently there are many ways to deal with it - don't offer advice on the subject unless asked, make sure the child's parents know the limits of your knowledge when you're giving it out.

If you set yourself up as an expert, you need to be ready to be criticised if the 'expertise' you are sharing is wrong (and dangerous).

I've seen both brilliant and woeful HVs. They al have a tough job but that doesn't make the woeful ones immune from criticism.

My HV neglected to ask me questions about my emotional health and ignored me when I told her how much I was struggling. She refused to accept that I was having feeding issues and told me not to waste a GP appointment with my problems.

After DD was tube fed because of CMPA and severe reflux I requested a different HV.

RiverTam: "DH jammed a key into a socket when he was a baby and was sent flying across the room, he could have slammed into a wall and be killed. I did my own risk assessment, and used them with no problem."

Was that in this country and with the three-pin plug socket that your DH did that? It's just that the sockets now in houses (as opposed to the 2-pin ones that used t be used in the UK and are still used in the US/Europe etc) are designed not to be live at all unless a plug is in them. So no plug = safe even if you jam a spoon etc in them. However, put a socket cover in them and that makes the socket live, but without the protection a sturdy plug between you and the live electricity, thus making them MORE dangerous than an uncovered socket.

This website explains it better than I am! www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

Yes, in the UK. No idea what kind of plug.

I don't regret using socket covers, we used them for several years. I didn't know anything about them being unsafe, and for us they weren't. I didn't ask my HV about them, don't think I was still seeing her when DS started crawling.

After 3 children over 15 years, I would say smile and nod and do what you think best regardless. The thing that you absolutely must do with your baby will be the thing that you absolutely mustn't do in a few years. The judgmental earnestness of a lot of HVs is astounding at times, given the about faces they must have worked through.

I have had a great HV and not so great. The one that sticks in my mind is the one who said my daughter had a speech/development problem and referred her to a speech therapist. At the time she was 3 and reading books for 7 or 8 year olds, had started music lessons and could play recognisable tunes so I wasn't too worried that we had a serious development problem. I could understand her but maybe that is just a mum thing so I go along to the speech therapist. She was brilliant, I found it quite fascinating to watch her working and at the end she said, "why are you here." I said, "I haven't got a clue." We had a laugh and she said my daughter's speech, vocabulary and understanding of grammar were all excellent.

This HV had been convinced my daughter was brain damaged ever since she asked how she was after her first immunisation when she was about 3 months old. I said she screamed blue murder for 12 hrs. I got a phone call from GP half an hour later asking me to take her down as HV had told him daughter had brain damage from the jab. Thank God it wasn't my first baby, she would have made me a nervous wreck.

I think the reason that shit HV's get so much stick is because it's infuriating that people who have access to people at a vulnerable time peddle crap.

My current HV is amazing. Honestly she is. She's knowledgable, she's kind, she's patient and she has been the most amazing help.

When I had my twin DD's I was young, terrified, I was suffering from something due to being a mother bringing back issues from my own abusive childhood and I had been abandoned by their Dad. My HV then shouted (and yes, actually) at me for not having the twins in a routine by 3 weeks and told me that it was legally compulsory for me to take them to the baby clinic (2 buses and a 10 minute walk) to be weighed every week. I was very lucky that one day when she was here my midwife came by (totally above and beyond the call of duty) because I'd had such a tough time and she wanted to make sure my counselling referral had been done and was able to tell me that she was talking crap and got me the help that I actually needed.

Shit HV's are an issue because they are the main contact point for people at a vulnerable time. They then make life harder for the good HV's (and midwives and doctors) because people are misinformed, or distrustful.

A good HV or a good midwife are worth their weight in gold, they truly are. That doesn't mean the shit ones should be exempt from criticism. They need weeded out so they can stop making peoples lives more difficult. If you don't know the current up-to-date safety guidance then you shouldn't be making reccomendations, no matter what your job.

Luckily I've had 2 lovely HV's. I've never had any issue with either but I totally agree with a pp that smile, nod and carry on is the way to go. I do feel for those who need more support/advice as I find it's really the luck of the draw and you can either get fantastic or awful advice.
I only know about the socket covers through mumsnet and I don't expect HV's to know everything but if you are going to recommend something you really should know the facts first.

My HV is lovely but my very first one was rotten.
I had pretty awful PND and she made me feel awful about not having the energy to leave the house most days!

reikizen I've tried to PM you but it's saying message is invalid.

I'm sorry for telling you to shove your comments up your arse

It was uncalled for and completely unnecessary. I could make excuses about being tired and ratty but they would all amount to the same thing and that thing is that, for a moment, I forgot how to be a civilised adult.

Feel free to call me a dick if you want to, I deserve it for being such a dick

As has been said about every professional in the world, some are great some are crap.

The thing with HV and other hcp is that they are telling people stuff which directly affects them or their familys health and therefor should have the most up to date advice possible. If they dont know it then they shouldnt be insisting that they are right especially if the person knows that they arent. They could also say that they will check before they give a piece of advice they are asked for, we dont expect them to know everything about everthing.

As I said I changed HV's once I knew the HV and knew she was 'flaky' and was not giving me the right advice, had I been a terrified first time mum perhaps I would have accepted her advice without question which would have been the wrong advice and possibly harmful to my baby.

The others I have had were brilliant, I had PND with my first and my HV couldnt have been more helpfull and supportive. With my second child HV was ok but not brill but not being my first child I could get past the rubbish they spouted and when they left before HV's visits stopped the next one was fab too.

We shouldt have to accept dodgy advice just because someone has a professional title/qualification. Wrong advice is still wrong no matter who tells you it.

BTW as an ex nurse I was horrified at the care (or lack of it/interest) I recieved in hospital from some of the midwives, yet others were lovely. Bad care is bad care whatever form it takes, we shouldnt accept it.

MN is a bit anti health visitor and actually health professionals in general as well. On the other hand, there's some wankers that have no business being around potentially vulnerable people.

MN can be fab when you need advice, my GP was dragging his feet when my son was about 4-5 months and had reflux as he's the type that won't prescribe anything unless you're likely to drop dead in the next 10 minutes. And even then he'd probably wait 5 of those. I knew to ask for Gaviscon and from the first bottle my kid and couch were both instantly happier.

My HV, all the ones I've met were absolutely great. They're the ones that got the ball rolling so I could get counselling when I had PND.

They specifically said they're not here to tell us off as parents and that there isn't just one right way to do things. When encouraging BLW and to wait until 6 months they said that maybe that won't work for us and to call if we're unsure.

Also, when I asked something and she didn't know she said as much, looked into it and called back.

So there are very good ones and downright dangerous and malicious ones and it does seem that more accountability is in order.