To wonder why HV still peddle bad advice?

[Endoftheroad16]

Specifically regarding using electric socket covers!
My HV asked if I was using them and seemed horrified when I said that I wasn't. I asked her to do some research as they are not safe for use with UK sockets. She said she would but I got the impression she thought I was a fool.

I thought the NHS had updated their advice on this?

This reminds me of a massive row I had with a snooty HV about 4yrs ago about exactly this. There was a student in the room so I pointed out that the royal society of electrical engineers had said for years that plug sockets weren't safe & override all the inbuilt safety features. That I knew which professional I was more likely to trust with electricity.

God I had the rage with that woman.

Rubbish are you referring to CPD? Continuous Professional Development

They can't win really can they? Do you really think your home safety should be advised by health visitors? The NHS even? What does it have to with them? Do people genuinely expect the authorities to advise them on this stuff or do they just enjoy criticising and complaining when they then say the wrong thing?

I think the biggest problem with HV is that the public don't understand what their service is.

Btw my healthy visitor was great but they can only help so much

But where is it guidelines? The document you've linked to has nothing to do with the guidelines related to advice HV give parents for bringing up their children in their homes.

The document linked above was set to clinical commissioning groups who employ HVs. It says:

"13A electrical socket inserts should not be used in health or social care premises, nor supplied for use in a home or residence. Any socket inserts currently in use should be withdrawn from use and responsibly disposed of."

I don't understand why you suggest it isn't related to advice HVs give parents relating to how they bring up children in their homes?

So why do HV have opinions and advice about so much, then?

Seriously I've never heard so much unwanted and unasked for advice of such shitness as I've had from HVs.

HV told me I should put my 7 week old baby in his own room immediately.

I ignored her.

My HV told me I shouldn't start weaning until DS1 slept through the night

Ah yes another HV bashing thread. If you were aware of the amount of changes to guidance, policies and procedures a health professional has to grapple with, with the time provided, you would have more sympathy. There is not one health professional out there who has got it right every single time.

Endoftheroad, why did you feel that you had to come onto a parenting website to discuss this? As an human being, you could simply have had a perfectly friendly exchange with said HV (also a human being - shock) about the recent evidence and she would be updated - no harm done. Instead, for whatever personal reason you feel the need to show your superiority over her by snitching on a website where she has no right of reply. Perhaps she had been seriously ill and off work for a year? Or perhaps,like me, she simply struggles with the constant stream of evidence based information/policy changes/government updates that health professionals plough through. I work 24 hrs a week and struggle to keep myself updated on my legally required updates, nevermind all the extra stuff. Please try to be less angry and judgemental, you probably are not aware of the mistakes you make but it is not possible that you are perfect, either personally or professionally.

Why is there is much HV bashing on here?

Probably because so many people have experience of HV's giving awful advice? I've got 3 dc. I've seen a few HVs. The only useful piece of advice I ever got from any of them was "buy meconium cream, it's messy but it will work".

WOW this advice has been out for years! Why are people still saying to use socket covers?

I changed hv's due to the incompetence of one of mine. Kept insisiting I should be weaning weeks before the guidlines. Also told me my son had 'milk spots' on his nose cos he was drinking milk! Yes obviously the milk is going from his tummy into his pores! Erm no I dont think so.

Had a word with the gp and changed HV after that gem!

Matchingbluesocks, you seem to have missed the point that this HV took it on herself to advise the OP about safety, and indeed to express horror when told that OP wasn't using the safety features the HV viewed as necessary. If, as a health professional, you decide to check on things like this and give advice, surely it is obvious that you should make sure that your advice is correct? The dangers of giving the wrong advice about safety are clear.

Oh shove it up your arse reikizen, you could say that about 99% of the threads on here.

I presume you've never ranted about anyone or anything in any of your own posts....?

She was telling the OP to get socket covers even though they've been proven to make sockets more dangerous, not less. Therefore the advice she is giving is not only incorrect, it creates a hazard if the OP was to follow it.

There definitely seems to be a gap in ongoing training with HVs.

The HV I had with DS1 (who was apparently a very 'pro BF' HV for the area) told me there were absolutely no health benefits to continuing BFing past 12 months. She very reluctantly said it probably wouldn't do any harm but she was clearly very uncomfortable about it.

It's not like this was going back decades or anything. DS1 is four. At the time WHO guidelines were to BF for at least two years (which I didn't, in the end).

No HV I've ever spoken to has been very up to date with info on autism, either (DS1 has a dx and DS2 is about to be assessed - both times I had to practically force HVs into referral).

Endoftheroad, why did you feel that you had to come onto a parenting website to discuss this?

FFS, reikizen, why shouldn't she? It's obviously a topic of interest to parents. To use a well-worn phrase, who made you the thread police? And if HVs are giving incorrect and dangerous advice to parents, it is fair enough to comment on that. It is, with every respect, childish to talk about "snitching", particularly when no names have been mentioned. Why should HVs be immune to criticism when teachers, lawyers, nursery workers, estate agents, supermarket workers etc etc aren't?

Keep my arse out of this! Just trying to keep it a bit realistic - as a midwife my mental health took a serious bashing from mumsnet a couple of years ago. I suffered from awful anxiety relating to a belief that women I had cared for immediately took to the Internet to tell their stories and my bad care/poor advice etc. It really is very hard to accept I am not perfect and keeping people safe and alive is enough some days. I am a very good midwife but it is hard to keep afloat some days. I am making a tentative return to mumsnet but threads like this bring me down a bit as they feel a bit close to home. I didn't know socket covers were dangerous, I bet loads of people don't.

Reikizen- sorry to hear about your mental health.

But you cant expect parents- mostly mums, often with very small children, not to discuss bad experiences with health care professionals.

Health visitors do get bashed a lot on here, but honestly, they wield what feels like an enormous amount of power when you're feeling a bit vulnerable and the advice they give can be extremely misleading.

If a HV is taking it upon themselves to critique a parent's home safety arrangements then they should be offering the most up to date advice.
If a topic falls within their professional area of expertise, then they should be bang up to date. If it isn't part of their field of expertise they should either keep schtum or refer parents to the relevant agency...maybe ROSPA in this case...NOT MAKE SHIT UP.

Lady Constance it is not. It is advising facilities managers about using such features in their office, clinic or other place of work, or supplying them to parents (my HV supply safety cords for blinds, for example)

It says nothing about what a HV should or shouldn't advise a parent in their own home and the document isn't even intended to- it's clearly facilities related. I have no idea why it's offered up as evidence of what HV should know about

My HV is nice enough. My doctor DH did have to bite his tongue at some of the health advice she was giving us, but she has given us loads of really useful information on baby sleep patterns and on interacting with the baby and baby development.

I told her I was finding it hard knowing how to interact with my baby, and she wrote me a list of things to do with him. It was great as I was doing some of the things on her list already which made me feel very reassured, but it also helped expand my repertoire of baby games.

It sounds like you don't need as much help as some people so just take the useful advice you're getting and ignore the rest. You have to remember that health visitors are really there to help identify and provide support to the children of families with far more dysfunctional homes than yours probably is.

Reikizen, I'm sorry to hear about your mental health. I have struggled with anxiety and depression and I actively avoid things I know will upset me, including newspapers etc. Maybe cherry picking which threads you read on here would help? But I think forums like MN are actually good places to discuss the failings of professionals related to parenting. Better to have a rant here anonymously than naming and shaming I think. Also remember that it's human nature to pick out the bad and forget about the good.

Back to the thread... If it isn't in her job to know about electrical safety, then she shouldn't be advising on it. It's a shame as even if she has good advice or support to offer in the future it will be harder for you to trust her.

Matching, are you looking at the same document? It's specifically addressed to people like social care providers and clinical commissioning groups, with a direct request for it to be cascaded to GPs. There is a very specific reference to the fact that socket covers should not be used in the home. If HVs and their employers know via that document that socket covers are dangerous and should not be used, surely no-one can seriously suggest that they can divorce that from the advice they give parents?

I repeat, if an HV takes it on herself to advise parents on safety, it is simply basic that she needs to ensure she is up to date with her advice. If she can't do that, then she should stop advising.

View Alert
< Go Back
Originator: DH Estates and Facilities

Issue date: 30-Jun-2016 10:01:08

Action by recipients:
Care Trusts
Mental Health Trusts
Specialists Trusts
NHS Regional Offices
Learning Disabilities Trusts
Mental Health & Social Care Trusts
Ambulance Trusts
Mental Health & Learning Disabilities
Acute Trusts
Community Trusts

Information to recipients:
Social Care Providers (registered with CAS)
Ofsted recipients
Other contacts
Independent Healthcare Providers (registered with CAS)
Clinical Commissioning Groups
Special Health Authorities

Action category: Action

Title: 13A Electrical socket inserts (socket covers or protectors)

Broadcast content:
This Alert is issued to highlight how, in certain circumstances, the use of plastic 13A (13 amp) electrical socket inserts (sold as safety accessories) can overcome the safety features designed into socket outlets.

13A electrical socket inserts should not be used in health or social care premises, nor supplied for use in a home or residence. Any socket inserts currently in use should be withdrawn from use and responsibly disposed of.

Additional information: NHS England regional offices please cascade to GPs and Dentists

Alert reference: EFA/2016/002

Action underway deadline: 18-Jul-2016

Action complete deadline: 01-Dec-2016

Attachments:
EFA 2016 002 Final.pdf

Cascade to:
Dentists
GP