To think that my childminder shouldn't charge me for activities?

[Falcon1]

I already pay £7 per hour per child (2). On top of that I have to provide nappies and wipes, then I'm charged for any activity she takes the kids to. I can appreciate that if it's something expensive like soft play , then I should contribute, but surely playgroups should be included in the hourly rate? Particularly as it is her choice to take the kids to them. It's not a lot of money but it all adds up.

As with most things, it all comes down to communication.

The hourly rate isn't an issue here - in different areas of the country there are different rates and it is agreed between the childminder and parent. Op has agreed to pay £7 - so the fact that other people get it for £4 or £9 is irrelevant.

You simply need to have a conversation with CM about this. If it was clear she would charge for activities, then fine. However, I think it would be reasonable to be able to agree a weekly limit for these - you clearly don't want her taking them to a legoland and presenting a bill for £30+ - extreme example, but you know what I mean.

So are you prepared to pay up to £10 extra per week....or whatever? Just bringing it up and discussing might also make the CM think again about how many chargeable activities she takes the kids to. It's fine to do some, but the CM needs to have the kids at home too and also to do some free activities such as going to the library. I think you can expect some kind of input into these decisions, although as not the only parent you won't be able to dictate. Setting a weekly maximum however seems perfectly reasonable. And saying if there is a special one off which will be more, she could ask in advance if you're happy about it.

What is in your contract. If you were daft enough to use a cm without a contract did u at least have this discussion before hand?

Christ. I was a childminder 10yrs ago and charged a flat rate of £25 per day, this was inclusive of home cooked meals and outings. Maybe I need to get back into it!?!

I'm £4 per hour and that includes all outings and food! Although surely it was in your contract?

Middlings, I think you might have your wires crossed about writing things off against tax.
It doesn't mean that the childminder is refunded by the taxman for the activities, it means that the childminder can offset the cost of the activity against her personal tax allowance for the year.
I'm not even sure if childminders can do this, although it sounds likely.

It isn't unreasonable to want to have some idea of how much you will be spending per week - part of this problem is the uncertainty.

I had CM who included trips and those who didn't. Both were fine, because it was all agreed in advance. If CM was planning to go out, she always said so in advance and told me the cost. I was able to say 'no' if I didn't want to pay, but to be fair, she usually only went to a chargeable thing at most once a week and they were never more than a couple of pounds. At the end of the school year they had a bigger trip to the local farm which was perhaps £8.
I think that the expensive kind of days out that you go on as a family treat occasionally, are not really where CMs should be spending their days TBH. So if a CM was constantly going to theme parks, zoos, expensive soft play and wanting me to pay, I'd have felt a bit peeved....and also as if they were using those activities to entertain the child, rather than doing it themselves. Occasional is fine for big days out, but not frequent with CM. And there should be no surprises - CM know parents have to budget for childcare, so the clearer and simpler the arrangement is the better.

For this reason, I was never keen on CM who wanted to add on a cost for every biscuit eaten or nappy used.....would have rather had a fee that included those basic items - or provided them myself. Definitely would not have been keen on a bill for lots of big trips out which equated to a couple of days of CM fees.

£25 a day?!

Adjusting for inflation that's £30 in today's money.

Yeah, certainly in London it's a little more than that now....

I was a childminder in London and charged £6 an hour. I didn't charge for local playgroups but did claim the cost back in expenses against my tax bill. I would have charged for more expensive days (agreed in advance) such as Jew gardens but maybe 6 times a year?

Kew gardens

It isn't in the contract, no, though she did mention it when I first met her. I just assumed it would apply to costly one-off activities only. I wasn't particularly happy about it at the time, but had run out of other options!

Thanks for your opinions. Just wanted to gauge what is normal.

It depends on what's in the contract, as PP have said. We've used two different CM - one included playgroups/soft play in the hourly rate but a trip to a big attraction (zoo etc) was extra. Our current lady charges £10 a month on top of the hourly rate, keeps a log of what is spent and then refunds any surplus as and when the contract ends.

£7 is fairly pricey though - going rate here in leafy Surrey is £5.50/£6.

I don't think you can expect her to pay, she wouldn't be going if it wasn't for your dc.
Her hourly rate would be less than nmw too if she had to pay to entertain your children.
She sounds cheap enough anyway and you should ask yourself if you'd be prepared to do it.

Where are these 4.50 an hour childminders? I pay 3quid per child for parent toddler groups and call it a bargain as it includes coffee and a fruit snack!

How much is she charging each week for activities?

I think if you are paying £14 per hour you would probably be better off getting a nanny, although I suppose that can bring with it all sorts of other issues - food & heat in your house, wear & tear, employment issues, employer NI etc. At least you get 1 to 2 care though.

I would be pissed off in the extreme if someone took my child on a trip and then insisted I hand over the money.

I wouldn't pay. Tough.

Surely the £7 is her actual wage? I'm not commenting on whether that is a fair amount or not (surely depends on where you live?), but the contract should state clearly that this is her wage which she takes home.

Her expenses are totally separate and should be charged as such. But of course you should be very clear as what those expenses include and what the weekly limit should be. If you decide her expenses must be zero, then that is a policy for you to put in place. Doesn't sound like you have had this upfront conversation.

Looks like you did not check her terms first.If a pound or two a week then maybe you would take them if you weren't working and assuming otherwise happy would go with it.Bigger trips you could mention you have 2 and could you know dates of expensive ones first.Social aspect of toddler groups to be recommended for Child minder and the children, all have a happy day and a change.

Childminders are self employed so can set their own rates.

I don't charge for local activities as it is included in my costs..

As for the poster who said they have too they can't sit them in front of Cbeebies..There is a big world in between.

How many groups the children do depends on age of child and what there needs are..Shy children I tend to ensure they go to groups that I think will help. I use groups more in winter than summer.

I think the how much an hour is a red herring..It depends on area. I would never get £7 an hour here.

LHReturns - £7 isn't a 'wage', it's an hourly charge per child. The childminder's income will be the hourly charge x however many children she has, minus her expenses. Usually self-employed people are responsible for their own business expenses.

Our cm rarely charges but the procedure is that she get approval for the activity and payment in advance. If any of the parents didn't agree then the kids didn't go unless she was willing to cover the cost.

That's more or less what I would expect, Toddler

You need to have a conversation with her. Don't feel awkward. You could approach it in terms of 'as its not in our contract, can we just clarify......' And if you come to renew the contract, get this stuff put in there too. It's the uncertainty that causes problems, not the charging itself.

You can be clear that you understand there will be some extra charges, but that you'd like to set a max per week/month - explain it is to help you with your budgeting.

Until you have this conversation, you will feel aggrieved, because nothing is pinned down.

And to the poster who referred to minimum wage, it doesn't apply to CMs as they are not your employee. They work for themselves and are in control of their earnings - they can care for several children at a time, boosting their hourly take home pay.

There is t a right answer about including trips out or not. Some CM will do so and factor it into their hourly charges - clearly then they aren't 'taking home' the full hourly charge you pay. All fine.

The key thing is clarity about what is happening between CM and parent - written down even better - so get it in any new contracts. Parents need some certainty as do CM, so communication is key.

LoisEighty I'll take your word for it - I have never had a CM before.

I would not like that lack of ambiguity as a client if set up that way. I am self-employed as a consultant and my out-of-pocket expenses are dealt with entirely separately to my fees (fees are for my time). I agree with my client a monthly limit for expenses (e.g. travel, phone, sustenance) and charge these in addition to fees, and provide all receipts to back it up.

I entirely accept that the CM world may be more informal than this but I wouldn't like it. I would be concerned that CM would do LESS sociable activities with my child if he/she had to pay for them out of her income.

*Hope it was clear I meant I wouldn't like that ambiguity as a client!

I think you are right. This is a crazy price for a childminder if it includes no extras. I'm using a really good London nursery and it's £7.50 an hour but includes all activities, nappies, wipes and all food. I thought £7.50 was expensive even though it includes everything. Best to check comparison prices in your area and what it includes.