Do I need to be tougher on DD?

[lightsandresistance]

Ok, dd (13) has aspergers, processing problems, dyspraxia and related anxiety, she is easily worked up and has also just started her periods so hormones added to the mix.

DD is very literal and often comes out with very literal comments to my parents, I do pick her up on this but she usually doesn't understand what she has done wrong. I do however correct her and explain why they might be upset. i.e My parents had been talking about dd inheriting the house when they die repeatedly and one day not long after dd came out with a 'when you have died and it is my house I am going to have blah in the garden' comment. I off course told her she could not say that and why but she was basically repeating what they had said.

DD and my Mum seem to be butting heads continually at the moment. She is a lovely girl and kind and helpful but she is very rigid in her rules. Again I do punish her or pick her up on any inappropriate behaviour.

She finds new situations difficult and can become quite anxious but my Dad makes jokes he thinks are funny which make dd more anxious i.e if she asks if we will get to somewhere on time he will make comments such as 'we will if the car doesn't break down/car starts/plane doesn't crash' etc. He loves her dearly but his 'jokes' wind her up. Then she gets told off for reacting.

We went out to a show at the weekend and dd had expected my Dad to be outside in the car when we got out but he had been held up, it was late at night and dd didn't know the area so she was a bit anxious, when my Dad rang to say he was here my Mum was trying to talk to him to see where he was parked as we couldn't see him but dd was talking over her asking if he was coming and was he here and was he flashing his lights (she could see a car which was) again I told her off but my Mum was still going on about it the next day.

DD is currently obsessed about us now trying to wash her dry clean only blazer, I was going to try it on a cold wash but she got very upset it would be damaged as someones had been at school so I left it in front of her only for my Mum who knew this to repeat that I should just go ahead and wash it while in front of dd, obviously dd got upset and commented that 'she can pay for another if she makes you wash it and it gets ruined'. Again dd was told off for being rude.

If something isn't 'right' she will comment (again I pick her up on this when it is inappropriate) i.e if my parents have said she can do something on a certain day and time and they don't she will comment. At the same time though if my parents forget to give her her weekly pocket money she never ever comments or asks for it or even mentions it to me.
She was recently told she could have any toy from a shop (within reason) by them and she picked something small and inexpensive so as not to be greedy and had to be persuaded to pick something bigger so she isn't spoilt.

I know it sounds awful but she is punished and told off and loses privilages but I am a bit stuck as to what to do, my Mum thinks dd is a brat who uses her SN as an excuse and I just feel completely stuck in the middle.

Dd doesn't go out anymore (damn clowns) and has just stopped the only hobby she has and doesn't really bother much with consoles etc so she doesn't really have much meaningful to remove as punishment and she spends loads of time in her room anyway so grounding doesn't work so other than removal of pocket money which I do and telling off but I often feel like I am telling her off for being aspergers.

I agree with a PP you are trying to manage your parents when you should be pointing out everything they are doing wrong. Your daughter is not a brat she has a disability and they need to come to terms with that.

She hasn't given up her activity and stopped going out because she was punished btw. She stopped going out because people freaked her out with this clown thing.

I have always just told her what she said was rude (if it was) and why it wasn't appropriate as I said originally or told her off for talking over people on the phone.

I try to only really punish when I think she has done something naughty rather than misunderstood. Although there have been times when i have told her off for being rude after my parents have said something and then felt awful after because looking back she hasn't done it intentionally.

I am taking note about the girl with the curly hair and nas sites/ books btw

I work with SEN students.
As you know, people with Aspergers struggle to read between the lines, take everything literally, and won't spare others feelings to state the truth.

I recently attended a course about Aspergers in teenage girls which was fascinating. For various reasons the teenage girl with the condition is more likely than a teenage boy to present as 'normal' (horrible word but couldn't think of a better one). They are able for a lot of the time to cover up the condition. However, it is a mask, and as always masks slip.

Your parents, like a lot of grandparents I work with, as well as older parents generally, are struggling to accept that the SEN issues are the cause of the outspoken comments. Because they think she's 'normal' a lot they see the outbursts as being rude. But the Aspergers is still there, like a lot of girls she can perhaps mask it sometimes.

I hope this is making sense.

Years ago when I started training to work with teens with Aspergers the consensus was 'it's very much a boys thing'. This is because it is more obvious in boys, more consistent. New thinking suggests that it's always been prevalent in girls, just harder to diagnose.

Could you get Senco to print off relevant info for your parents, they need educating about your DDs SEN.

She isn't a brat. I'd pull them up sharp on that next time they suggest it. Yes, she will speak her mind, take things literally and be unable to 'get' jokes. But that is her condition, and they need to learn how to help her, not tell her off

Your parents are seriously out of order. In what other circumstances would you even consider punishing a child for having a disability? This is what they are getting you to do to your daughter, winding her up then watching you punish her for doing something she doesn't understand.

They need to take a long hard look at their frankly disgusting behaviour, and they need educating on Asperger's, finding out how much of it is anxiety-driven and finding out how to treat her as a human being, not someone to be bullied because she's neurologically different and says things they think are rude, blunt etc. If they had an ounce of understanding and compassion, they would realise that you do not parent children on the spectrum the same way that you parent NT kids.

How on earth you've managed not to lay the law down to them before now is a miracle. I'd have stamped out the first instance of their bullying teasing and I'd be there every time your daughter makes - in their opinion - some gaffe and explain that people with her disability do x y and z because they are neurodiverse and should be appreciated for their talents, not made to conform to NT expectations.

Please also encourage your daughter to read blogs etc. written by a selection of autistic women, so she can see that her natural ways of being are not wrong, they are different to NT, but not wrong. It's so important that she recognises this.

Look up 'masking' and see how exhausting it is for her to get through an ordinary day in the NT world without all the extra pressures your parents, and by association you, are putting on her to "behave properly"

They can't joke with her like that she has no skills to understand grand dad was only kidding because she is not able to process a joke, in her mind

the carcouldverywellbreakdownandthenshewillbelatandifsheislateshe might missherthingandifshemissesherthing thenitstheendofherworld.

I have no gaps in because it demostrates how stressful it could be for a person with so many complex needs your Dd has your parents have to at least try and understand her

Would the phrase 'a joke with the funny bits taken out' help?

I'm with everyone else here. Please be tougher, but with your parents not your DD. They need to understand that her bluntness comes from her SN, and not her being rude. They also need to stop winding her up.

13 is such a difficult age even for NT girls, adjusting to growing up, body changes, friendship issues, hormones etc. Your daughter sounds like she is a lovely girl going through a tough time coping with her SN and all the difficulties associated with her age. Go gently with her, be tougher with your parents.

Are the things that your parents do for you really worth the strings that are attached, like them deliberately upsetting and insulting your daughter? Is there any way you can cut back on their involvement and visits? You have explained to them about her AS so their ignorance is wilful and hurtful. While she should be gently corrected when she says something inadvertently insensitive about inheriting their house, why on earth did they bring it up in the first place?! And the other examples sound like they were goading her. She doesn't know what she's doing but they do.

I think you want to guard against the trap of over-punishing simply to prove to your own subconscious that you are not causing your dd's problems by being "soft". You don't have to prove that. She has a diagnosis. You did not cause this and you can not punish her out of it.

But as the mother of a child with SN, I totally understand the temptation. There is always (and this goes with a physical SN too) the whispered suggestion that maybe mum is to blame, you live surrounded by that, you internalise it. I am ashamed to say that there were times when my dd was hospitalised and in pain and I would not even buy her a packet of crisp because I was so completely focused on proving (to myself? to the doctors? to God?) that I wasn't encouraging her to feel ill by molly-coddling her. She has forgiven me, but it was not good.

I would practise a few useful phrases to shut your parents up in advance. And if that doesn't work maybe cut down a bit on the time you spend together?

1 of mine has a processing disorder but no ASD and in times of anxiety there is no way you could joke with her she would implode. Your parents clearly have no real intent to hurt their GD however they cant be treating her the way they are and you cant be telling her off because of a situation they created.

I didn't find anything your DD said in response to be rude. Faced with similar situations I would have the urge to say the same, although as an adult I am more able to recognise the influence of my anxiety and try to filter it (not always though, even after years of living with it, it can catch me out making me irrationally fearful, irritated by others who I shift the blame onto, and unable to stop the repetitive, negative thoughts). Your parents need to better understand your DD and stop all deliberatively provocative discussions.

Your DD doesn't sound rude to me. Miles away from being a brat.

If your DD had wanted to wash her blazer and your DM had said 'well on your head be it, it will come out of your allowance if it gets ruined' would anyone think this was rude? I honestly think if the adult was saying it the child would have to put up with it. It's one of our unspoken social rules - and it's a bit silly. Most teenagers push against things like this.

I'm allowed to talk about my death, but if you did it it would be rude - also a bit silly. It might hurt my feelings to think that people are looking forward to when I'm gone, but that's not what was intended. DD is just following your dm's lead and the social rules aren't consistent so it's not always possible to anticipate.

Lots of nt kids will say 'you're fat' to a stranger. That's just a fact and very rarely will it come with the subtext 'and that makes you ugly' or similar. The person hearing it can read that subtext in or laugh about it. I'm not blaming people for being sensitive, but not pointing out what society sees as failings is something we learn when we learn what society thinks of certain things. A kid who doesn't have any weight based hang ups will have to learn about fatness being seen as a bad thing before they realise it's rude. Similarly your parents have promised something and not followed through. That would annoy me but I wouldn't tell them that because I've learned that that it's rude to point of other people's shortcomings. Your DD is presumably just telling the truth. It's not really her fault that this upsets people, and she may take many years to get the hang of what works in various contexts.

A lot of ASD is society's problem in my opinion. The rules aren't consistent and we have little tolerance for people who don't follow them the way we want. The talking over her gm on the phone wouldn't even be noticed in some families, or in my office.

I think if your parents see her regularly then they should learn to explain rather than be sensitive.

I think you are doing brilliantly, you really seem to 'get' your dd. If your mum is not well she might not be handling her so well at the moment, but another chat might help there. I have children on the spectrum and I often get frustrated with them and sometimes need to offload with understanding friends (usually other parents of children on the spectrum). It can be wearing always having to accommodate others!
Your dad might have a point about dealing with uncertainties. I try to reduce my child's expectations of punctuality in others, in an attempt to minimise stress. 'Yes, they said 11, but you know what granny is like, she could easily be late'.
I don't punish really, except for violence . I think you are doing great.

There's bound to be lot of better advice out there, but the only analogy I can think of (to help your DPs understand it better) is like being in a room with everyone dancing.
Your DD tries to join in. She copies some moves but gets told those moves are wrong, without knowing why they're 'wrong'.
So someone says "it's left left right", so she believes it's "left left right", not knowing that actually it's "right right left" & ends up stepping on toes & bumping into people. But why would someone say LLR if they mean RRL - there's no logic to that.
So she carries on trying to dance, being told it's wrong and given wrong information.
If that carries on, she'll just end up sitting out of the dance, afraid to try again for getting it wrong, and not knowing why she 'can't get it right'.
Your parents are the other dancers. The toes are their feelings.
It's up to you to help them help her to dance so she doesn't get excluded from life the dance.