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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to say child should stick with first arrangement and not turn down for better offer

76 replies

ChocolateWombat · 24/10/2016 12:31

So, we have arranged for a family with kids to come over for a day in November. We are friends with the adult and our DD is friends with their kids and has been for years, in terms of us spending time together as 2 families. It's been quite difficult to find a date that works for us all.

Now DD has received an invitation to a friends birthday party mid afternoon on the same day. She would love to go, but it would mean taking her away from home straight after lunch and leaving the 2 kids of the visiting family without a 'host child' if you see what I mean.

I feel it's an important lesson to learn that we stick with our original arrangements and don't blow people out when a better offer comes along. Realise it's a bit tricky when children don't always make their own arrangements, but think it's an important lesson to learn. Do you think I've been unreasonable and DD should be allowed to go?

OP posts:
JustDanceAddict · 24/10/2016 14:33

Decline the party or rearrange the day.

Ohyesiam · 24/10/2016 14:46

YANBU, it's just basic manners.
Also disappointment is such a big part of life, it's really important that they learn to cope it.

ChocolateWombat · 24/10/2016 15:48

Thanks everyone.

I realise that children don't usually make their own arrangements - they are subject to the family arrangements and sometimes the two don't quite fit. My DD was happy to hear the family with their 2 kids are coming round because she would enjoy the day. TBH, even if she wasn't overly thrilled by the idea, I think that for children of this age, part of being part of a family is doing things together and that it is the adults who have to make the plans. If as an adult I had planned for her to go on a play date to another friend (instead of this being a family day) then I would want her to stick with the original plan to play with a friend, rather than blowing them out, to go to the party instead. The principle is the same. To me, the idea that a pretty small child can own social life irrespective of what is going on in the wider family doesn't quite make sense. Small children spend their lives going where they are told to by their parents.

I imagine that as DD gets older, there will be less of the kind of arrangement we have made with the other family. I imagine that we might make plans to spend a day with the adults and it will be left much more open about whether teenagers will join in or not, as their plans are not fully known when planning. That would sound fine to me and no one would be let down. I don't think we are at that point yet. Yes, DD gets a few invites, and usually they come far ahead of time so nothing else is arranged and she can go. That event then takes priority and we wouldn't plan other things at clash or prevent her going. However, more of our arrangements still involve us as a whole family and when we make them like that, I'm keen to honour the original arrangement.

All of us sometimes face a bit of disappointment of missing out on a social event, because we are at work, or are already committed elsewhere. It's just one of those things. I really wouldn't want to be someone who easily lets others down for a better offer, and I think that whilst this situation hasn't been arranged to be a learning experience for DD but has just come about, learning these kind of principles through practice of the family, not just words is actually important. I'd hope that later when she can make more of her own choices, she might think twice about letting people down.

OP posts:
ChocolateWombat · 24/10/2016 15:55

Gleam - so if your DD had arranged the original event, would you be happy for her to cancel it, for a more attractive offer?

Do you think that children of all ages should always be able to opt out of family arrangements if something they prefer comes along because they themselves haven't actively made the choice to arrange the family activity? Would you be saying the same if DD was 7 or 5 or 3 even? Just interested in how this would work out in practical terms and what the implications of this would be for ever organising any kind of family activity with others and guaranteeing to others involved that it would happen. Or do you think that as adults we should never count on the presence of our children at anything, regardless of their age, because they might get a better offer and should feel free to accept it?

OP posts:
KoalaDownUnder · 24/10/2016 15:55

For what it's worth from a random stranger, I think you are spot-on, OP.

sirfredfredgeorge · 24/10/2016 15:56

YABU, you arranged, your DD had no say in the arrangement, you shouldn't have arranged something on her behalf.

scaryteacher · 24/10/2016 16:03

YANBU, this is how life works. Had you been going away that day, would you have cancelled it for the party?

sirfredfredgeorge · 24/10/2016 16:05

Oh of course you can tell DD to suck it up she can't go because you can't facillitate - but don't pretend it's a life lesson about honouring arrangements you make, as she didn't make the arrangement.

ChocolateWombat · 24/10/2016 16:08

sirfred, can I ask then if you ask your children of all ages, if they are happy to join in any activity that you are doing and always actively seek their permission? If they don't like the idea, do you cancel the activity and not go ahead yourself, because obviously small children can't be left alone? I'm just interested in the practicalities of what you are saying. Do you think that children should always be allowed to over-ride the plans of their parents and no take part, if they didn't actively arrange them themselves?

This isn't the same as an adult making plans for another adult without asking and then expecting that adult to simply go along with it. Small children are different and spend most of their lives going to places and events that their parents choose - it's the nature of being a child. So those things might include a trip to the park, a visit to friends, a holiday, a trip to the supermarket......

Doesn't being a family sometimes involve making plans as a family and having commitments together as a family? Having made the plan for the other family (man, woman and 2 children) to come over for the day, to be with my DH and DD, I expect my DH and DD to be there too - we are a family and sometimes plans are made that involve us all. DH and I spoke about inviting the other family over, DD knew we were inviting them - it is a family event. If DH suddenly had another 'better' offer and chose to go and do that thing instead, I'd feel rather irritated and let down. Yes, sometimes plans have to be changed because people have to work, or emergencies come up etc....but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people actively choosing to turn down a pre-arranged social event which was arranged for a whole family, because they have been invited to another which they prefer.

OP posts:
OurBlanche · 24/10/2016 16:12

You are now being forced to overthink this... your response to the birthday invitation is easy "Thank you for the invitation but, unfortunately, we have other plans for that day. I hope X has a lovely birthday" Send a card, small gift and have the day you have already planned.

That is what happens in the real world. You do what you have arranged, unless it is easy to rearrange - and you want to!

At age 9 (?) your DD has little choice, if it is inconvenient for you. That too is a real world reality!

ChocolateWombat · 24/10/2016 16:15

SirFred, it's a 'life lesson' in the sense that children learn by seeing how WE behave. If we honour the commitments we have made, they learn that is a good thing to do....and perhaps will emulate it later in life and take it onboard as one of their own values. They might not, but seeing values acted out in real life is a valuable learning lesson. No, this wasn't set up to create that lesson, but all I'm saying is that from what is a bit of disappointment arising from this circumstance, I hope something useful comes.

Likewise, if we chose to cancel on our friends because of the party or to go ahead and have them over without DD there for the children to play with (and I doubt friends would have been interested in coming over for the day with their 2 kids if they thought our DD wouldn't be there - so it would be changing the goal posts of the event) then she too would learn something from our behaviour - that it is okay to let people down/change events to suit ourselves.

I just think kids watch us all the time and see how we behave. We can say all the right stuff, but the way we actually live is being observed all the time and unwittingly the kids are taking lessons from it and it affects their own behaviour into the future.

OP posts:
PineappleExpress · 24/10/2016 16:17

I think YABU.
Even if she does get on well with them, they are your friends' children, not her friends. She shouldn't have to miss a good friend's birthday party to entertain them. It should be her decision.

YelloDraw · 24/10/2016 16:23

If I was going with my parents to visit family friends, and the other child wasn't there and was at a party - I would have been pretty miffed! You have plans for the family that day - you stick to them. DD can so something nice with her friend another time.

minipie · 24/10/2016 16:39

I agree with your decision Chocolate though I don't think it's demonstrating the principle of "don't turn down a prior offer for a better one" - as for you, the prior offer is the better one! I think you'll have to find a different occasion to demonstrate that principle.

Is there no way the family friends can come earlier in the day and leave post lunch...?

gleam · 24/10/2016 16:48

Well I think I'd ring up my family friends and use the excellent suggestion upthread of them arriving earlier. They could then leave after a late lunch and dd could go to her party.

I mean, they're friends with young children, so they'd understand, right?

If they couldn't come earlier, I'd rearrange. Because they're friends with young children, so they'd understand, right?

And if it's so difficult to find a time to get together, then I'd question how much of a priority you are in each other's lives.

sirfredfredgeorge · 24/10/2016 16:50

The problem is ChocolateWombat that the lesson is also "it's okay to make arrangements for other people" or "kids opinons are less than others" etc. Such indirect lessons are not clear cut, so they don't work as a lesson, as I say, saying she can't go because you can't facillitate it is fine - although that depends a bit on if you could.

On the previous point (before you read my clarification) I don't think you ever make arrangements for a whole family that you force on them, without making that explicit that's what you're doing. Pretending that you're arranging for "the family" is just a way of showing that you are actually in command. It's okay to be in command, just don't pretend it's consensual when it's not, and use it sparingly - ie don't decide that the family has to go on the supermarket trip at exactly the time DD has a better offer.

Nataleejah · 24/10/2016 17:07

Yanbu. I assume it isn't a best friend's birthday that you'd know the date from previous year. Family plans come first.

amicissimma · 24/10/2016 17:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChocolateWombat · 24/10/2016 18:19

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.
TBH, I'm not keen to ask the friends to come over earlier. I know their kids have activities earlier in the morning. We have invited them for lunch and the afternoon.....so that's what I think we should deliver. The party is straight after lunchtime, so it would really interrupt the day - the children wouldn't really get any playing together in, plus an adult would have to take DD to party, leaving the guests for 30 mins when taking her, plus another 30 mins at pick up time.

If our guests didn't have stuff on earlier in the day, or if the party was later in the afternoon, I might have thought about your suggestions to ask them to come earlier - however, I would do it reluctantly, because I don't like to mess around with plans too much once they are made, because you don't know what other stuff people might have arranged in the meantime and how the new plan might interfere.

Yes ammiciss - the friends certainly agreed to come over, on the basis that us and DD would be around - adult company for adults, child company for children and a bit of us all together during the meal. If they had known DD wouldn't be around for most of it, that date wouldn't have even been considered, because it would cease to be an event with company and enjoyment for all - so DD not being there would change the whole dynamic. And yes, if DDs party invite had come first, we would have said yes and that then would have been the event we stuck with - wouldn't have considered a day with our friends, as DD was already committed elsewhere.

Sirfred - it's not that kids plans are less important at all. In this case, the thing she would have liked most came up AFTER alternative plans (which happened to have been made by me, after co versatile with DH and DD) had been made. If her party invite had come first, that would have had priority and I would have been prepared to turn down other invitations whether they were for adults or children. In fact, we have often done that because DD has been invited to things before invitations have come for us or the whole family. It really isn't about adult activities or choice having priority, but committing to something and sticking to it.

And regarding making plans for the family=being in command, rather than it being consensual - well, in lots of things, as the adult and parent of a small child, I accept that yes, I am in command, if you want to use that word. It is up to me when DD goes to bed and if I think social events are suitable. And it is up to me to decide if the practical arrangements for social things she would like to do are practical for the family....because she is a child and can't be expected to make judgements about logistics and bigger picture stuff.
This said, family arrangements are not 'forced' on the family. So DH and I might have a conversation about inviting people over and some possible dates and we may well ask DD if she would like to see those friends. It is then likely to me who has the phone conversation with other family and pins down the time and date. Yes, I then do tell DH and DD, but this hasn't been forced on them at all. There hasn't been any arranging for the family to show I'm in command, or lack of consent - we are all in agreement that spending a day with this family (or other activities we choose to do) is what we want to do. I certainly don't decide the plans for the whole weekend and just go ahead and schedule everything in without conversations. Often DH has the idea of what to do or DD will or we will chat about a few things we would like to fit in over the next couple of months. Someone has to make the calls though and fix the dates and times....and I can only do that based on info about other things I know are going on, at that point. It's not possible to predict what other options and invitations might later appear....but we accept that if it involves other people, we stick with the plans first made....and sometimes we or DD don't get to do the thing that appears later and looks more fun.

And of course, with things that don't involve other people, we can be much more flexible. So if I was planning to visit the shops (Sirfreds eg) and an invitation for party turned up, we would certainly shelve the shopping. It's only things that involve others where we try to stick with the original plan.

OP posts:
Psychomumsucks · 24/10/2016 20:32

Why did you bother asking opinions.. Hmm

flupi · 24/10/2016 20:45

I think you should stick with the first arrangement too. If I was the visiting family I would expect my children to be able to play with yours and not for you to be haring around delivering her to a party. I'd be a bit put out to find you taking her to a party- would make me feel my children weren't important. It's a family day and she is part of your family and should do the family thing. Just be firm and say no, sorry you can't go- we have so and so here that day. Full stop the end, no nonsense. Families are important and I think it's a good lesson for her to learn to put it first.

Daydream007 · 24/10/2016 20:50

YANBU

scaryteacher · 25/10/2016 09:57

The OP's DD is 9. Do all of those who say she is BU, let their under 10s run the household or choose their own activities? You are not there to be your child's bff, you are there to be their parent, which involves saying no at times, and other arrangements take priority.

myfavouritecolourispurple · 25/10/2016 10:23

Your DD is only 9, there will be a million other parties so why not just tell her the family is busy and she can't go. Which is what you are going to do anyway, judging by your comments on this thread.

I find it really annoying when people cancel me for a better offer - or won't commit at all because they are waiting for a better offer.

ShelaghTurner · 25/10/2016 11:56

Tricky one because although I agree with first arrangement takes precedence generally, I'd lean towards prioritising the children she sees every day over ones she sees once in a blue moon. Tough for her to go back to school the next day and have them all talking about the party and she was at home with some random kids.

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