To think Cliff Richard and co should stop their awful campaign?

[PinkyOfPie]

news.sky.com/story/sir-cliff-urged-to-drop-campaign-for-anonymity-for-sex-offence-suspects-10620627

In a nutshell Cliff Richard and other well known men have launched a campaign to grant anonymity to accused sexual offenders.

AIBU to think they should FOTTFSOF? Aside from it being a well known fact the other victims come forward when they see their abuser/rapist has been charged, there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest a 'false' accusation of a sex crime impacts a person more than a false accusation of any other crime. Its a horrible rape myth that damages victims.

Also the official stats false accusations for rape and sexual assault (of which around 35 people are convicted a year in the U.K.) are no higher than false accusations any other crime.

So why in gods name would those accused of sexual crimes ever get special treatment?

I'm still racking my brain as to why my post was deleted.

All I said that the media often has it's own agenda (true) and we should be careful about what we believe because what's reported might not be the full story (again true).

I never said anything bad about Jay, his mother or his family. I said that I know that it's not been easy for his family but it also hasn't been easy for this girl or her family either.

I'm also not sure what's wrong with pointing out that the media have reported it as a false accusation because everyone can surely see with their own eyes that that's exactly what they've done. Despite there no evidence that it was a false accusation...it would have been far more accurate to point out that he was simply accused of rape or that it was a withdrawn allegation.

I've lost count of the number of times people have posted various news articles on here and other people have come on to gently remind people to be careful what they believe, how there's probably more to this story, the media select which parts to report on, etc.

I think that's sensible advice regardless.

it would have been far more accurate to point out that he was simply accused of rape or that it was a withdrawn allegation.

it would have been far more accurate to report that he was accused of rape or that it was a withdrawn allegation that should say...

And now I'm holding my breath and waiting for my post at 13:27:05 to be zapped too...

I'll say it again. 2 people are tragically dead. We will never know the facts

Right.

However neither of those points stopped two posters at the start of the thread making speculations about this case nor did it stop other posters on different threads speculating.

Nor has it stopped the media speculating about what happened in this case and using sensationalist headlines to report it - e.g reporting that he had been "falsely accused" instead of what really happened which was simply accused but then the allegations were withdrawn.

Why is it okay for people to speculate and assume the girl was a liar and made it up but it's not okay for me to point out that the media don't always report the full story?

Genuine question btw. I don't know if it's because I'm autistic and not getting something really obvious here.

alleged chats with the person involved

I'm going to assume you mean my chats with the person who was allegedly involved.

"Alleged chats" just makes it sound like you think I'm making that up for the shits and giggles. Believe me I have better things to do with my time.

AVirgin, it's not because you're autistic, it's because you're right. I saw your post before it got deleted - I don't know why it was deleted either, because it wasn't salacious, it was factual. In that case, the majority of the headlines made sure it said 'false rape allegation' when there was no evidence that it was, which is so bloody dangerous. When one of the famous soap actors was first investigated a few years ago and the CPS initially closed it, an equally famous TV presenter on This Morning actually said how awful it was that he had been named and it had turned out to be a false allegation. At the time I complained and said the program was watched by millions and they had a duty to put right what he said because it's so dangerous to equate no charge/withdrawal/acquittal with a false allegation. I asked them to get him to apologise for what he said because all the people that watch that program could think any case that does'nt end in a guilty verdict is a false allegation and it bloody isn't.

We all know the statistics - 85.000 women raped each year. Only 15.000 report, only 5,000 get to court. The conviction rate for rape is barely 6% at the moment. Of all reported rapes less than 2% a recorded as false, and even Keir Starmer said of those that many are women who he no doubts have had something happen to them at some point in the lives. Many have mental health problems as a result of previous sexual abuse.

The thousands of lives that are ruined by rape every year, I mean ruined as in victims not being able to function at all, and people still think one of the most important things is to bring in anonymity. I just don't get it.

That's one of the reasons I didn't report my rape cat. Because I knew he was highly unlikely to be convicted and if he'd been acquitted at any stage then people would think I was a liar and had made the whole thing up.

Totally agree mycat and avirgin.

There was no 'surmising' in that post whatsoever. The allegation was withdrawn, not 'false'. And the media did push the 'false allegation' story despite the fact there is no evidence to support it.

Even the Telegraph manages to admit they were wrong to describe the complaint as 'false' at the bottom of this article:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/29/mother-of-son-who-hanged-himself--after-being-accused-of/

"CORRECTION:An earlier version of this report wrongly described the rape allegation made against Jay Cheshire as ‘false’. In fact it was simply withdrawn. We apologise for the error."

It's a pity the rest of the media, and certain posters on this thread, haven't followed suit. For someone so obsessed with avoiding speculation/inaccuracy, itsmine appears to be doing a good job of promoting it.

Innocent until proven guilty is the basis of our law.
No one should be identified unless proven guilty.

In fact, I have messaged MNHQ to say how shameful it is that they deleted a factual post that did nothing more than challenge the rape myth that a withdrawn allegation or lack of a conviction = a false allegation.

I think it's also worth thinking about the different things a false accusation can mean.

The assumption tends to be that it's always a case of a evil woman making malicious accusations just because she wants to hurt him. However a false accusation could also be a case of mistaken identity or a woman with with mental health issues who genuinely believes she was raped.

There was a poster up thread whose DH was wrongly accused/suspected of rape by the police however in that case a woman really had been raped and unfortunately the wrong person ended up being accused/suspected.

Technically that was a false accusation but it wasn't a malicious one. However I bet that if that poster simply told people that her DH was falsely accused there would no doubt be people thinking "lying bitch".

I have already messaged them Woman and they've been in touch with me. They told me it was deleted for being "speculative" and "not in the spirit of the site"

"Not in the spirit of the site"? Really now? Is that their new favourite phrase?

I'm glad the telegraph corrected their error and admitted their mistake.

But there wasn't any speculation in it at all?

And yes, Jay Cheshire's family deserve respect, but so does the woman in this, and her family. The fact that every section of the media has jumped (incorrectly) on the bandwagon to label it a 'false allegation' is something MN should stand against, not defend!

The events are very sad for all concerned, but it is perfectly possible to convey that sadness while accurately reporting it as a 'withdrawn allegation'. That is what the media should have done, and it is absolutely appropriate to criticise them for their handling of it.

Well I have no connection with anyone involved, and even prior to this thread I knew perfectly well that the media were reporting it inaccurately. And that is all avirgin said.

but it is perfectly possible to convey that sadness while accurately reporting it as a 'withdrawn allegation'.

That's what I meant when I said that they'd obviously decided to report it from a "falsely accused" angle in my post that was deleted and quite frankly I don't think there's anything wrong with that because surely everyone could see that's exactly what has been done.

If it hasn't been reported as a false accusation then what exactly has it been reported as?

At least if it was reported correctly as a withdrawn allegation in the first place then people would still make their own decisions and judgements but they'd be doing it based on more accurate reporting.

The media has a lot to answer for in how they've chosen to handle this.

I think they're the ones who should be ashamed.

Of course I feel awful for Jay's family but I also feel awful for the girl and this family too.

I just hope she is safe and no one breaches her right to anonymity like they did with the woman in the Ched Evans case.

I would have serious fears for this girls safety if she was named

I would love if the people who said they were going to get in touch with HQ to let me know what their response is.

I know that someone else said they were going to get in touch with them this morning.

They told me it was deleted for being "speculative" and "not in the spirit of the site"

That is not on. It wasn't speculative at all. As for not in the spirit of the site, what's that then? I would have thought that trying to point out inaccuracies that lead to rape myths and the type of abuse the woman in the CE case got would have been exactly in the spirit of MN.

What a liberty.

Except the media did 'go with an angle'.

Hence the correction posted by some media outlets afterwards (see the Telegraph article above).

That's fact, not speculation.