The distribution of benefit money

[harshbuttrue1980]

This isn't intended to be a benefit bashing thread - I'm not questioning the overall amount of money that people on benefits get, but how it is allocated. I live in the SE, and have an acquaintance who is single and on benefits. As a working single person, I live in Slough rather than London as I can't afford London, and I commute in to work every day. My one-bedroom flat costs around £700 a month.
My acquaintance lives in London because she prefers being near a tube. She isn't held back by budgets, and gets £1000 a month for her one bedroom flat in a decent part of outer London. Sounds cushy... HOWEVER, she only gets around £70 a week to actually live on - that's for food, travel, electricity and water. She struggles, and has had to resort to food banks. So not so cushy at all!!!
AIBU to think this is a bit crazy? Wouldn't it be better for her to get £1280 a month and to actually have the chance to budget and make choices like everyone else? At the moment, she chooses to live in an expensive area as there is no incentive not to do so. She has already said that she would choose a cheaper area if it meant that she didn't have to struggle every month to pay the electric bill.
It seems insane to me that someone is living in a much plusher flat than lots of working people, but can barely scrape by in other ways. Maybe people out of work could be given a flat rate and make their choices about how to spend it? Or am I missing something?

Yes I know. Sorry I'm not trying to put anyone down or goad etc.
I suppose part of my issue is that it seems that they don't help people out of the situation that their in - we have a shortage of nurses, teachers and lots of other skilled professions where I'm sure some people would be happy to train and have a better pay/prospect.
It seems it all about keeping benefit claimants on the minimum wage wheel - it makes me mad that we don't encourage people to aspire to better but complain about our heavy reliance on skilled workforce a from other countries, grrrr. I'm sure it's not all as simple as I think it is but it can't be that complicated either can it?
And I know that some people can't/won't want to study.

I don't understand what's so tragic about her having to take a year out to save up? Yes, she'll end up making a higher contribution via taxes, but she'all also benefit hugely. And you mention she is getting help with childcare costs, so is being supported to do her degree.

I am not giving a comment on whether current system is good or bad just a potential example-

Example if OP acquaintance is healthy single adult living in Islington-

Age 23 - in private rent - maximum weekly HB £136.52 per week
JSA £57.90 rising to £73.10 when she is 25, help with council tax so only have to pay a small amount

Aged 35 - in private rent - maximum weekly HB. £260.64 per week
JSA £73.10 again help with council tax

I had a very quick look. It is possible to find places - most are for students so she would become liable for CT (with 25% discount) for whole property- landlord or students probably won't accept. Lots require work references or are no DSS

JSA - if you fail to look for work in accordance with your agreement you can be sanctioned (benefit stopped) for between 4 and 13 weeks. If you fail to take up a job offer sanction could be 13, 26 weeks or 3 years (probably if there was fraud.

If acquaintance is sanctioned after 2 weeks can apply for hardship payments of max. 60% of JSA if she can show she hasn't got anyone else she can ask and can't pay bills

tps://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/in
www.islington.gov.uk/advice/benefits/counciltaxandhousingbenefits/local_housing_allowance

www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/further-information

What's tragic is she may not make it to the end. She's in 3rd year, has already taken a year out and will have to take another year out to manage financially but there are rules in all universities about how long it can take you to finish a course you're studying. She's spoken to the registry department and their attitude is that if she needs to take time out again then " she needs to rethink if this is the right course for her".

Childcare help she gets is 50% so she is still having to top up the rest - she is really overwhelmed and it's sad to see as the majority of the stress is from worrying about finances.

It may seem like support but when you see what a week in a her life is like you see there's not much support at all.

I'm not really wanting to get in the specifics my point was just that benefits should help people to hep themselves move forward, not keep claimants in a cycle of poverty.
I was agreeing with OP that the system is flawed and needs some sort of overhaul - I couldn't tell you what needs to change and only used my sister as an example of what I feel is wrong with the system

Well well. It took only 54 minutes for someone to mention pensioners getting benefits in the form of a state pension. I've worked solidly for over 45 years for my 'benefits' thanks very much.

HADtohave I totally agree that we need a proper strategy to support training and education far more. It can be life-changing.
I thought people could receive benefits when either looking for work, or receiving further education (I'm probably out of date though )

Late 1970s when I did my MSc, one student was mid-40s with 5 kids, their living expenses and fees paid by a gov scheme called TOPS. It took him off benefits and into a well-paid career. Win-win for all.

Late 1970s when I did my MSc, one student was mid-40s with 5 kids, their living expenses and fees paid by a gov scheme called TOPS. It took him off benefits and into a well-paid career. Win-win for all.

one problem is that the government pot is only so big, and we are spending a huge amount of money housing people through LL subsidies. to the tune of 25B now.

All that money could go into training. Or disability benefit. There are things we absolutely need (training, supporting the disabled healthcare etc), but housing people where they want to be housed shouldn't be high on the list.

I personally think benefits should be focussed on the disabled, carers, and working people who earn minimum wage. It shouldn't be used to prop up people who choose not to work & the government really should get tougher on this.

Lha is a fixed rate based on area and how many bedrooms you needed for your family. Up until approx four years ago you could "keep the change " up to a maximum of £15 a week. I thought it was an excellent policy as in enabled people to make the kind of choices they would make if they were not in receipt of HB. Obviously the Tories disagreed.

HADtoHAVE your sister is entitled to child tax credits does the not claim them?
Also surely a one bed would make more sense with young dc , they can share the bedroom she sleeps on sofa bed in lounge.

The ha I rent from has properties in Kensington, once you are on the council list you can bid for them. Its getting high enough on the list that is the problem....

Startling foolishness on here. Its is mental to say that claimants don't want to work. The jobs narkets just doesn't reach people effectively.

i was unemployed for practically three years. I am now in employment that pays £300 less per month than basic living expenses.i am qualified, experienced, and generated huge incomes for businesses in the past, but applying for upwards of 250 jobs a week has only resulted in shit jobs .and now my 30 hour a week job (my employer, like most minimum wage employers rarely allows people to.work more than this).

I am happy to work much more than the average person, at a higher level, but the world of work just won't let me. It does, however, want me to work less than full time on less than living wage, in a job that is making me ill. That is what we have let happen in the last 6years.

The wages are so desperately low, now that even incinsistent dole is a far better economic decision enhanced dole eg disability benefit even more so. Dole is set at the absolute minimum you can live on...yet our big famous brand names treat their staff worse than this...how we expect to build and maintain an effective self-actualised workforce if we allow companies to bleed us dry like this. its astonishing we let this happen. people are trying to maintain families on less money from their employer than can keep a single person alive... and its getting worse. Food prices are increasing, inflation will go up soon -so debts will be more dangerous to hold..and we still allow tge asdas,tesco,morrisons, costa,starbucks,next, spirts direct, amazon ..the list is endless. .to follow a 'fuck the country' model of business. In the US the end game has been 10,000 people in some states queuing overnight for food stamps, violent hateful ghettos and extreme poverty without healthcare..so an unfit workforce. Guess which nation publishes the business textbooks most business schools follow?

The poverty culture we are creating by blaming the poor for accepting low wages, when we have businesses whose conditions we as a nation can control is crazy.

and my parents, daily mail readers, shake their heads,blame me for this, and tell me all about their two holidays a year on their final salary pensions oblivious to the fact that it wasnt them that set that up, it was the better economic conditions they had in their productive years. They wont even cook me a meal every now and then because they think.i 'need to learn how to stand on my own two feet' i'm still applying every week for new jobs, and even my counsellor won't believe me..because she retired with a payout and gets paid £35 per hour she also thinks its ny laziness, not the economy. its such a nasty world

Fleur have you any experience of the current benefits system? I'm on esa, I am unable to work due to both physical disability and mh issues. My initial claims for esa and DLA were both summarily rejected before they even received the evidence from my drs. I had to appeal - a deeply unpleasant process. Just completing the forms takes 3-4 hours!

Every time there's a change in govt (local or national) there's a 'policy review' every single time that's happened in the 8 years I've been unable to work that's resulted in me receiving less money or worse a payment not being received at all - it can take months to sort, you're passed from pillar to post, notes are inaccurate or downright lies! You're spoken to as if you're thick scum! (I'm a graduate who worked from i was 16 full time until I became ill).

I know people on JSA. They are frequently told to apply for jobs they aren't qualified or experienced for (but there are no options for training offered), jobs they physically can't do due to family circumstances (several provide caring support for family members), or jobs that are so far away it would take hours of commuting that would eat up 50% plus of their GROSS salary!

If you're moving from being on benefits to in work you're supposed to get financial and emotional support - it doesn't happen! Usually what happens is all benefits aside from maybe tax credits (and that usually gets cocked up!) and child benefit are stopped, given the majority of wages are paid monthly what are families supposed to live on in the meantime? Shall I tell you what's happening? They end up dreading being made homeless cos they can't pay their rent (private landlords generally don't care why and to be fair it's not their problem) going to food banks to eat, turning off the heating when the kids aren't home, getting into debt with companies that are barely legal!

Make it tougher indeed!

And that's all before you remind people that there's around 33% fewer jobs than there are people looking and that a lot of these jobs are zero hours contracts, short term contracts, less than 16 hours etc

(several provide caring support for family members)

Which im sure is something scaryclowns parents wont be expecting of her when the time comes as they are so keen on standing on their own two feet

If you mean they lack foresight Helena I agree

Exactly graph They cant have it both ways. People need to be more careful about what they wish for.

I really don't think £1000 will get anywhere near half decent in London for rental. I have a friend who is a nurse in a London who pays £1400 to rent a one bed studio flat (with a lot of help from her parents), and trust me when I say the place isn't luxurious at all. Can't imagine what your friend is living in for £1000 per month.

Definitely! My dad (total arse) bangs on about 'all the jobs in the papers' no clue! I once went through all the jobs I was being emailed by online agencies - over 100 only 1 was remotely doable for any of his 3 kids, he last went for a job 'interview' in 1969!!

My mum is much more aware of the reality, she worries for her 4 grandchildren, especially as one is not very academically able. She thinks there should be a very gradual decline in how much you receive in benefits for first 6 months in work, it makes it less scary, provides financial support, it would mean people could cover costs like deposits for childcare, season travel passes, new clothes for work etc. She absolutely agrees supporting the working is wrong as I think anyone reasonable would, but under the current system the poor and non working/min wage workers are being vilified but not being supported INTO being working contributory members of society! It's called the benefits trap for a reason once you're in it it's bloody hard to get out!

I live in a very high unemployment area, one of the highest in the country yet the nearest college that provides basic employment IT training is 18 miles away (we used to have it here but funding cuts, also in real terms 35 miles away as you can't get there by a direct route as first bus there not till 11am!)

Lol she doesn't think supporting the working is wrong but supporting the work shy!

I imagine it's true that some areas of the uk are easier to navigate on benefits or a low fixed income than others. I thought or read that the benefits cap was driving people out of london and other a spendy areas.

£1000 a month for a studio? I pay £750 a month for a 3 bed semi with a big garden a drive and a garage in a lovely desirable area (in Devon) with amazing schools. I think the hb shortfall would be about £100 a month if I was entitled based on LHA. I think folk in the south east have it very hard

Single parents used to receive £40 a week for 12 months when they first found a job.

JSA is a temporary benefit. I have no issue with someone bring helped for 6 months. When dh was unemployed we had zero help with our mortgage. It was really stressful and our modest savings evaporated. I feel that there should be some kind of way of helping people with housing costs for a short period of time.

Long term benefit claiments should be given a set amount of money to spend as they see fit. We should not worry if s benefit claiment has an extra room. I think it would bring down rents if benefit claiments had some extra money for finding a cheaper property.