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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that Staffies are not "nanny dogs"

716 replies

Flowersinyourhair · 14/10/2016 20:07

Ok. I await the cries of "it's not the dog, it's the owner" and "we had one and it was wonderful" etc etc. However, once again here we are looking at a news story about a dead baby and a seriously injured toddler as a result of a Staffie attack. AIBU or does something drastic need to change regarding perceptions of dogs like this who are apparently fine, until they're not. This dog was, it seems, the dog of a PC. Not a thug or a dog fighting yob. A PC.

I await the barrage of abuse here. I just feel so sad about these poor defenceless little boys who harmed no one and have suffered so tragically.

OP posts:
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6
tabulahrasa · 15/10/2016 23:33

"I've just spend 5 mins on Google and come up with a statistic of over 2,000 attacks and 85 deaths as a result of pit bull type dogs in America. By far the highest of any other breeds."

Yes, like staffies here they're one of the most popular breeds in America. Any reputable study of dog bites ends up pretty much correlating them by popularity of breed.

But they weren't that many here, there were hardly any of any of the 4 banned breeds in fact, the dangerous dog act was in fact rushed through without any evidence or research after one high profile case.

Since then dogs have been killed for looking wrong while actual dangerous dogs have attacked and killed children more and more frequently.

They don't need a law banning more breeds, they need a law that deals with the behaviour of dogs and the person in the other end of the lead.

Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 15/10/2016 23:36

As others have said, the chances of being able to boot a small dog away from a child it was going for are far higher than the chances of defending a child against a muscular powerhouse such as a Staffie etc

OP posts:
justdontevenfuckingstart · 15/10/2016 23:38

NO of course it's not ok. Any dog can wound, harm or kill. It's fucking horrible. I am not sorry for saying this but it's the owners. I would NEVER EVER leave our dogs unsupervised with children because as much as we love them they are animals.

Yes my dog is big and stronger than me but I would NEVER have left him in that situation. I don't understand why people do, I trust what I see day to day but you just don't know.

Very very upsetting but a scenario that shouldn't have EVER happened IMO.

Night everyone.

Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 15/10/2016 23:39

"Yes, like staffies here they're one of the most popular breeds in America. Any reputable study of dog bites ends up pretty much correlating them by popularity of breed.

But they weren't that many here, there were hardly any of any of the 4 banned breeds in fact, the dangerous dog act was in fact rushed through without any evidence or research after one high profile case"

There weren't that many here?? They're the same dogs, whether in the US or UK! It makes no difference where they live. And I'm sorry but 85 deaths seems like quite a lot to me really. 2,000+ injured people.

Honestly, the need of some to defend these dogs literally at all costs beggers belief really.

OP posts:
minifingerz · 15/10/2016 23:45

"Any reputable study of dog bites ends up pretty much correlating them by popularity of breed."

So you should be able to find some reports of death by dachshund then, given that they are 1. a popular breed and 2. responsible for a large number of bites.

Hmm
TheHubblesWindscreenWipers · 15/10/2016 23:48

Yes my dog is big and stronger than me but I would NEVER have left him in that situation.

But how could you stop it? If the child is, say, playing on the floor and you're right there supervising and the dog goes for the child..? Then what? If it's stronger than you you can't stop it.

Of course you dont leave dog and child alone but if the dog is stronger than you then your presence will not help if it's attacking. The dog that turned on my cousin had to be almost beaten to death by the four grown men who were (thankfully) in the room before it stopped. All four were bitten in the process. My cousin is an adult and a strong guy but if that'd have been a child it'd have been game over. What beggars belief is that after they had the dog put down they went and bought another one

tabulahrasa · 15/10/2016 23:50

"And I'm sorry but 85 deaths seems like quite a lot to me really. 2,000+ injured people."

Only if you ignore the size of the country - there are about 20 million more dogs in the US than people in the UK.

"Honestly, the need of some to defend these dogs literally at all costs beggers belief"

Breed specific legislation doesn't work - it doesn't reduce attacks or deaths anywhere it's been tried.

The countries with laws that deal with responsible ownership and breeding have lower rates of dog attacks.

Why would you not want that?

Add in the fact that staffy type isn't a breed, that those dogs described as that don't necessarily share any common ancestry or breeds with same traits and what's the point of focussing on breed? It's worthless and until every breed bigger than a chihuahua is banned a waste of time.

ayeokthen · 15/10/2016 23:51

How big does everyone think Staffies are? They're smaller than collies, labs and GSDs, and nowhere near the size of a Rotty, Mastiff.

justdontevenfuckingstart · 15/10/2016 23:53

It is my Rottie and my Step grand daughter. She comes over once a week and I keep them apart, I really wish i hadn't commented on this thread.Not going to defend everything I do.

Have a good night all.

Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 15/10/2016 23:54

"Breed specific legislation doesn't work - it doesn't reduce attacks or deaths anywhere it's been tried"

So I'll ask again, do you believe that the ban on the four dangerous dogs in the UK should be lifted? Would you be happy to see pit bulls on the streets openly in the UK again? Running free at the park amongst children?

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Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 15/10/2016 23:55

"Not going to defend everything I do".

Let's hope you never need to.

OP posts:
tabulahrasa · 16/10/2016 00:03

"Would you be happy to see pit bulls on the streets openly in the UK again?"

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

"Running free at the park amongst children?"

That would, but not because of the breed, but because that's not where dogs should be running free.

With proper dog legislation it wouldn't matter what breed anyone owned, dog ownership and breeding would be more controlled.

Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 16/10/2016 00:05

"It wouldn't bother me in the slightest"

Then I give up.

OP posts:
RoseGoldHippie · 16/10/2016 00:08

Would you be happy to see pit bulls on the streets openly in the UK again? Running free at the park amongst children?

Would you actually know OP? I find it really bizarre that you think breed banning is more effective than a licensed system with properly legislation on dog ownership. It all kind of goes back to the fact that you think there is such a thing as a 'safe' dog around children which, to be honest, is a lot more dangerous than owning a staffie.

RoseGoldHippie · 16/10/2016 00:08

**proper not properly sorry!

Pluto30 · 16/10/2016 00:10

In the US:

  • A pomeranian killed a 6 week old.
  • A dachshund killed a 2 week old, and another killed an 87 year old.
  • A fox terrier killed a 38 year old (shouldn't they have been able to "over power" the dog, according to your logic?)
  • 2 Boston terriers killed a 4 year old, another killed a 93 year old.
  • A bulldog killed a 3 year old, another bulldog killed a 6 month old.
  • A labrador killed a 3 year old, another labrador killed a 5 year old, another one killed a 2 year old, another killed a 2 month old,.
  • An English sheepdog killed an 87 year old.
  • A beagle mix killed a 17 month old.
  • A schnauzer killed an 86 year old.
  • A golden retriever killed a 6 year old, another golden retriever killed a 50 year old.
  • A Jack Russell killed a 6 week old.
  • A golden retriever mix along with an Australian shepherd mix killed a 74 year old.
  • An Old English sheepdog killed a 14 month old.
  • A golden retriever x labrador killed a 2 month old.
  • A labrador x shepherd killed a 3 day old.
  • A labrador x Great Pyrenees and cattle dog killed a 36 year old.

So, I mean, yes, dachshunds and other small dogs have been responsible for peoples' deaths, some of whom "should" have been able to kick the dog away, according to people on this thread.

tabulahrasa · 16/10/2016 00:10

"I find it really bizarre that you think breed banning is more effective than a licensed system with properly legislation on dog ownership."

Well exactly.

Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 16/10/2016 00:12

I don't think there is a safe dog! I have never said that and would love to know where you got that idea. I have argued, however, that some dogs are inherently more dangerous than others as a poor result of their stature.

Dog licences don't solve all things. People were still killed by dogs even in the days of licences. They would help, I agree, but let's not pretend that a pit bull might behave differently as a result of its owner possessing a piece of paper.

OP posts:
Original poster
Flowersinyourhair · 16/10/2016 00:13

Pluto- a long list there but no pit bulls/Staffies on it?! Are you suggesting that there were no deaths as a result of these dogs?

OP posts:
minifingerz · 16/10/2016 00:16

"So, I mean, yes, dachshunds and other small dogs have been responsible for peoples' deaths"

Have you got the statistics for big muscular dogs, like Rottweilers, staffies and pit bulls?

Pluto30 · 16/10/2016 00:17

No, I'm suggesting that other peoples' (and your) asinine suggestion that other dogs can't do as much damage is plain wrong.

Someone said that there's no evidence that a dachshund has ever killed a person, and I provided the evidence (pretty easy to find with a simple google search).

minifingerz · 16/10/2016 00:17

US figures:

	"In 2015, the combination of pit bulls and rottweilers contributed to 91% of all dog bite-related fatalities. 2015 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2016"

minifingerz · 16/10/2016 00:18

"that other dogs can't do as much damage is plain wrong"

They can't. Otherwise they'd be responsible for a similar number of fatalities, given that they are responsible for a similar number of attacks.

Pluto30 · 16/10/2016 00:19

Yes, mini, they're in the same place as I found those stats. But my point wasn't to show that staffies etc. are capable of killing people, but to disprove other peoples' statements that smaller dogs/other breeds don't do the same kind of damage.

Actually, the stats would suggest that prior to state breed specific legislation, deaths from attacks by Bull mixes were relatively rare.

tabulahrasa · 16/10/2016 00:22

"Dog licences don't solve all things. People were still killed by dogs even in the days of licences."

Proper licensing, not what we did have which was just basically a dog tax - pay the fee and you're all legal.

Something more like Switzerland where there are compulsory courses and you have to pass a test before you can own a dog.