To think that Staffies are not "nanny dogs"

[Flowersinyourhair]

Ok. I await the cries of "it's not the dog, it's the owner" and "we had one and it was wonderful" etc etc. However, once again here we are looking at a news story about a dead baby and a seriously injured toddler as a result of a Staffie attack. AIBU or does something drastic need to change regarding perceptions of dogs like this who are apparently fine, until they're not. This dog was, it seems, the dog of a PC. Not a thug or a dog fighting yob. A PC.

I await the barrage of abuse here. I just feel so sad about these poor defenceless little boys who harmed no one and have suffered so tragically.

My MIL has a little border terrier. This dog is a hypochondriac, it hides from cats and squeaky toys, really, it's the least scary dog I have ever met.

But when DP, I and our young son moved in with her she was very careful. She emphasised that we shouldn't leave DS alone in a room with the dog, that we needed to keep an eye because DS was new in the house, and the dog would be trying to figure out where we all fitted in. She knew dogs, she knew that even her lovely, ridiculous, adorable dog was still a pack animal, and could still seriously injure a baby so we took it slow, and were very careful.

As a result, DS and the dog are friends now. They both know when to leave each other alone, and at other times we all sit on the settee together lounging perfectly relaxed.

Good dog ownership includes understanding how dogs think, and working with it.

Staffies, like any dog, can be lively it v aggressive. Sorry for the cliche but it is a lot about how it was brought up and who by.

I wouldn't alone with a child, no matter the size or temperament of it. Obviously it's unlikely a chihuahua could do as much damage as an Alsatian or similar but a chihuahua can still bite.

I think there should be some sort of licensing for any dog really. Not everyone is a responsible owner unfortunately.

I feel extremely sad for the family and the baby though it must have been absolutely terrifying. As much as dogs are a part of a lot of our families, we have to realise at the end of the day they are an animal. And occasionally animals will act on their instincts over the behaviour we have taught them.

As for banning staffies that's ridiculous. Any dog could have done it, as a pp said let's ban cars, nuts, grapes etc.

Never trust a dog round a child no matter what the breed. That said we don't know what went on, whether the dog got loose and the older child began to play with it and got in its face then it snapped or whether the dog was just on one.

Very tragic incident

You can't just blame Staffies any dog even if they are the softest dog on the planet can snap and bite so should we ban all dogs just in case they are having a bad day and they may or may not snap. My sister has 5 dogs and 2 of them are staffies and she has 3 year old DN and she has never been bitten by any of the dogs and my sister spoke to our friend who has rescue Staffies and he told her that they are nanny dogs and they can be great with kids. I don't think the dogs are to blame all the time it can sometimes be the fault of the owner. I was brought up around dogs and we've had 2 that my parents had to get rid of the first one got put to sleep because she jumped in the pram with me my mum only knew because it had been raining and there where dirty paw marks all over my white blanket and she kept going for my face every time I was on the floor the 2nd dog was a Staffie cross and he trapped me in my bed my dad had to throw the cover over him and drag me out of the bed that was the only way to get me out of the bed but my mum was in the wrong for taking him back because according to the woman he should've come before me and my sister. If you know there is a problem with the dog or you just don't trust them then don't leave them on their own with children or give them to someone else.

Completely agree with Waitrose

All dogs can be dangerous. It's not the breed. There are a lot of bigger dogs who are by definition more dangerous on the basis of size. To have a go at staffies is irrational and distracts from the real issues. All animals are animals and must be treated as such. Having said that staffies are indeed recognised by the kennel club as being 'safer' than other breeds around children. Along with 2 other breeds I think. It's down to research. Staffies are much closer to humans than other breeds for various reasons. But it's all relative of course. They are animals and will attack if they feel threatened.

It's beyond me why anyone would want 5 dogs when they've got a 3 year old. Surely there is complacency there because it is impossible to watch 5 dogs at the same time.

They are animals and will attack if they feel threatened.
There is no way a dog that size could feel threatened by a baby, they must attack for other reasons too.

I appreciate that people on here are defending their own 'soft staffies' ,and in the same breath saying they are responsible owners who dnt leave their child alone with said dog, BUT surely it can only take seconds for danger to strike? A high pitch squeal from a child, tht startles the dog, accidently running past the dog and stepping on an ear, in the time it takes to cross a room catastrophic damage can be done to a small child.

No dog should be let in around any baby or toddler.

It makes no difference what breed it is or how long you have had the dog. They respond differently to babies and toddlers than they do to a bigger child or adult.

It makes no difference if you are in the room or not. Attacks can happen very very quickly, quicker than you can respond to to prevent a bite.

When a dog bites a small child it is more likely to cause catastrophic damage because it will go for the face or neck as it is at the dog's face level. If it bit an adult it is more likely to go for the arms/legs first, then the face when you get lower down.

A golden retriever is more likely to bite a child.
A staffie if it bites is more likely to do catastrophic damage.

Each breed is equally capable of biting. One will do more damage than another. One is more likely to bite than another. But all of them should be kept separate.

It could be that the poor family in question was keeping their dog separate using stairgates. But sometimes a door gets left open, especially when you are busy. In that case, it is an awful, tragic accident.

So there is always a risk when you have dog and small child in the house together. You can minimise the risks with stairgates but you cannot completely eliminate the risk altogether.

"There is no way a dog that size could feel threatened by a baby, they must attack for other reasons too."

I hope you don't own a dog and never have one....

And stop with 'that size' it's hardly the biggest dog ever. Yes it has a powerful jaw for its size but the key is for its size! I am not sure a golden retriever's bite is less powerful than a staff but not sure..

My family rescued a mutt dog when I was around 4. It was a big mistake. The dog wasn't used to and did not like children and it bit me on the face. It wasn't the dog's fault, but we rehomed him.

I was bitten by a rescued grey hound at a family member's house when I was about 12. It had been hit by a car in the past, and I was warned that sudden movements could trigger an attack. I stupidly forgot and ran past it. It chased me and then me.

I've also been bitten by my mum's dog when I was trying to train her.

I'm just shit with dogs I suppose. They do not like me and bite me. Thinking back, I've been bitten dozens of times. I don't know why I'm not afraid of dogs.

But I am afraid of dogs harming babies and children. I would never own a dog.

My heart goes out to the family. What an awful tragedy.

"BUT surely it can only take seconds for danger to strike? A high pitch squeal from a child, tht startles the dog, accidently running past the dog and stepping on an ear, in the time it takes to cross a room catastrophic damage can be done to a small child."

With a family pet though, there are years of past interactions to base the risk on.

A dog living in a house with small children isn't likely to suddenly be startled by a squeal 3 years later.

If your dog has spent 3 years (I picked 3 at random btw, it goes for any period of time) getting stressed by the child being present - they'd have shown that, very clearly.

finite's post is bang on the money.

The lovely friendly, bred to be protective of kids, wouldn't hurt a fly, big softie dog my uncle had (for years without a shred of aggression) turned one day and nearly killed someone. It had to be ripped off him and he was very lucky indeed (dog weighs more than he does and is about seven foot tall on its back legs.)

It had a tumour. Never shown a shred of aggressive behaviour but it was HUGE - I was always terrified of the damn thing.

None of them bite...until they do and frankly unless there's a physical barrier between dog and child there are going to be serious injuries. No dog is 100% safe around a child. None. No dog owner can say with 100% certainty that their dog is safe yet this 'nanny dog' thing is so so prevalent.

Being back compulsory licenses. Dog ownership needs to be much more tightly regulated. They should ONLY be owned by people who are responsible and can give them the correct care, exercise, supervision and training they need.

surely to God dogs bred for fighting and then bred with others are going to produce something unpleasant and dangerous?

OK never leave a child alone with a dog...it may snap....common sense.
I think some are more of a threat than others.

oblada no I don't, I had a dog before DC there's not a chance I'd have one with a toddler and a baby.
Especially not one that size (yes that size I.e a heck of a lot bigger then a baby!) who apparently can feel so threatened by a much smaller, immobile, helpless creature as to feel the need to attack it.
Threatened my arse.

it should be treated with a degree of caution as it has the capacity for ferocious attacks.[14]

I've had various dogs over the years, from giant breeds to chihuahuas. I kept big dogs with young kids in a chaotic household and got away with it. However, in hindsight, I think legislation should be far far tighter around allowed breeds. No one NEEDS a staffie, or a rottie or similar large energetic piwerful dog. There are so many breeds that are not suited to modern day living with busy lifestyles, small gardens, small houses and limited exercise. Surely to god no one would be that deprived or hard done by if the list of dogs allowed to be bred in Britain was shorter and based on statistics for safe easy and more placid dogs.

I loved my GSD. Did I care for her properly...no. I didn't walk her enough, my house was small, my garden was small and I had three young kids. Would I have loved a cavalier or biscion just as much? Almost certainly and my life and my neighbours lives would have been easier. That's a common story across the UK.

We need to let a lot of bigger and more difficult breeds die out as everyday pets, and invoke restrictions allowing only those who REALLY want or need certain breeds to own them. Breeding of certain breeds should be banned. Litters or x litters born after a certain date should be pts (as it's the only way to manage this sadly) and all these large and unsuitable for suburban life breeds should be neutered at the earliest point by law except for highly regulated breeders.

It's easy for me to sit and type this, I'm aware doing it would be very difficult indeed, but this is my 2p worth!

There is no way a dog that size could feel threatened by a baby, they must attack for other reasons too

I think any dog can feel threatened by a baby actually. Especially a dog who is used to all the attention of the owner, or lived in a previously quiet home with no children.

It wouldn't feel threatened because of the size of the baby, and I'm guessing it didn't think the baby was going to attack it. However, baby's are noisy, I'm guessing if you've never heard a very loud scream or cry that could be quite alarming.

Maybe it's not so much the threat or a baby, but the change in the household

Any change can be stressful for an animal surely?

Staffies are not large dogs. At all.

I think some people look at large American Bulldogs, mastiffs, boxers and the like and think "Staffy" when they clearly are not anything of the sort. And, coupled with the sort of OMG it can lock its jaw misinformation that we've seen on here, then it demonises one breed at the risk of people thinking that other bigger, heavier breeds are 'safe'.

If we got rid of staffies, we'd see a bit rise in all of the breeds above. Which are much larger and heavier.

The "Nanny dog" nickname comes from the fact that Staffordshire Terriers are the only dog breed whos breed standard specifically refers to their calm tempermant around children.

UK Kennel Club and NZ Kennel Club

They do however look tough, and often other breeds are stated to be staffys to get around dangerous dog laws. They are also frequently cross bred and it is impossible to predict which breed charachteristics will be inherited.

A staffy crossed with a collie for instance would be seen as an innocent cross but dogs with herding instincts are particularly dangerous around children as without proper training they will attempt to herd the children, and can nip and get frustrated when the children do not cooperate.

I own a Staffy x Lab, and despite having raised her from a puppy and taken every precaution to ensure that she is as safe as possible around children I would never leave her without supervision around a child for the safety of both the child and the dog.

This is a horrible situation but it is unfair to judge an entire species on the actions of one cross breed dog. Just as it would be unreasonable for me to state that all asians must be dreadful drivers because my half asian half european friend crashed her car last week.

I personally think all dogs should be under some form of licence. I would never trust any dog 100% , but Staffies are extremely cheap, overbred dogs more likely to fall into the wrong hands and not receive training, socialisation or enough exercise. I liked them as a breed till I got a dog , I do admit I feel scared now if I see one for my dog. It's damage limitation all dogs can turn but the damage a staff could do vs say a Pomeranian are huge, yes they could still injure and scar but Staffs are big powerful dogs. Most that I have met haven't been very dog friendly so my heart sinks when I see one, one latched it's self onto mine a shook it like a toy then bit my leg when I intervened. Sounds harsh but from a safety point of view I think they should be muzzled in public, but that goes for all dogs that have been aggressive.

I'm finding it a little hard to imagine how people are able to guarantee that their dog is never alone with their child, unless either of them are locked in a room or a cage?

Dogs are sociable and will walk round and be part of the family, surely. Does every parent with a dog eyeball their mutt 24/7? When you go to the loo or make a cup of tea, your child is right by your side or the dog is tied on a leash? When it's summer and you're in the garden but want a drink from the kitchen 20 seconds away you take the child or dog with you every time? When you've left your bag upstairs you ensure you take your child with you? At night time your dog is in a room with the door closed or there is a stair gate to ensure the dog can't get upstairs or your child down? All these tiny little occasions in life where you are not fully focussed on both your child and your dog? It takes seconds for a dog to launch at a child. I can't believe people are able to be on full hyper-vigilant alert for every minute of every day and night for years? I appreciate you might be wary and not have your child with the dog alone for long extended periods of time, but I'm struggling to imagine excluding them totally from each other's company at all times, without your presence.

Dogs are natural predators so shouldn't be left with children. That isn't difficult. You can train them and look after them well but it is rather risky to leave a dog with a small child.

Cauli My dog lives outside/in the sunroom, my child lives indoors. If DD and I are in the garden and I have to go inside yes she comes with me, not solely due to dog, DP almost died after eating deadly nightshade as a child... she's also never left alone with the cats, because they're assholes who are far more likely to attack her.