If you are minted....

[FeralBeryl]

*What is your/ partner's career or job?
*
Not a TAAT more a TIBAT (inspired by a thread)

Someone has a monthly take home pay of £11k
Not going to lie, I fully intend to suddenly obtain the necessary qualifications overnight for whatever it is. sure there'll be an online course....

I know there will have been a great deal of sacrifice, no work home balance etc. I'm not wanting to judge at all-I'm enthralled

Please.

chow ooh, what kind of sport - or are you not able to say?

I'm fascinated by some of the characteristics that I've seen in professional sportspeople - an incredible attention to detail when it comes to actions that can lead to incremental improvements in performance, for example - that are carried beyond the sport into many aspects of life.

QueenJuggler I think that's becoming more common wrt no future planning.
DH is the other way round tightarse and plans desperately for years down the line, whereas I'm more of the 'we could die tomorrow let's spend' mentality.

I agree with beryl, it's all relative.

Why is is ok for those who earn £1000 /month to complain but not those who earn £10,000? Both seem trivial compared with the millions of people who live on $1/day .

Hey Queenjuggler. It's football.... yes he earns silly amounts but I do wish people could see the amount of work he puts into keeping himself at the peak of fitness. And the days after matches where he can barely walk! There are a lot of sacrifices (never being able to have family holidays as kids breaks never fall on off season!) but as you can imagine many upsides. So I don't complain :)
Wish I had some of his dedication to being fit though (I type while stuffing my face with the cake I baked yesterday wahhhh!)

My parents take home is not quite £11k but about £8k a month. One is a top scientist in his field (he's nearly 60 so took years to get there) the other is a consultant for the UN and also a lecturer part time.

The point is that if you only compare yourself to those above you then you will never feel well off. Yes it is relative, but you should be looking at those below as well, and not just your social circle or neighbours. (You could argue that you should be looking at it globally too, but whilst worthwhile, it's very difficult to get your head around and have any proper concept, whereas it is relatively easy to see where you are in your country).

To be in the top 1% earnings in the UK, you need to be on £159k pretax (2013-14 figures). There is an exponential increase towards the end of the scale, so top 2% 'only' needs earnings of £110k. If you are in this top 1% you have to have a serious lack of awareness to think you're not 'minted'.

Whatthecoming

But isn't that an element of human nature?
Do you think there is may be a fine line between encouraging ambition and 'keeping up with the Jones' maybe.

I would assume - maybe completely wrongly that if you do get time to have a social life doing those hours, you are generally spending it with like pocketed people, so it would be difficult not to compare occasionally.

Did you see my post earlier saying depending on which of our friends I'm with, I either feel a) skint b) similar c) affluent.

A and B make me uncomfortable if financial subjects come up as it is difficult to empathise sometimes.

I think sports people are a good example of those prepared to put in a lot of effort for marginal gains.

But I guess the thing is that what looks like a marginal gain to an outsider might be huge to a sports person.

As I said previously I accept the luck in my own circumstances.

The bad luck that gave me enough money to buy the freehold to.a large Maida Vale flat in the early 80s, the luck that I could rent the rooms out to people my own age and save the money, the luck to meet dh who was a builder and decide to put money in to property. The luck that came with being able to take advantage of the crash in prices in the late 80s just as we started to have more liquid capital.

The luck that came with being able to live off a teachers salary when all the cash from property was going in mortgage payments in the 90s.

Even luck when property prices went through the roof and selling 2 well placed houses netted enough money to clear all debts on the others.

It was hard work, it took a lot of time at the start. But to pretend it's all of my own doing and just down to hard work and good decisions is futile.

Beryl

Yes it is human nature to compare, but it is possible when you do have those thoughts to put them in perspective. I earn nothing like the sums being talked about, but still reasonably above average, have a house etc. But I live in a relatively affluent area, and sometimes I do get jealous of someone who has been abroad for the 4th time this year, building a nice big extension etc. Which is when I have to remind myself that actually I am doing OK for myself.

I've got loft conversion envy today

Interesting that posters claim that salary talk is more open in the U.S. When I worked, I was never asked.

Also interesting that lawyers in U.S. firms are more open about salaries and bonuses. So even the top, top firms in the UK have equity partners on lockstep?!

stopgap I think most have some sort of adapted lockstep (lockstep but with certain criteria to move up through the equity tiers). "Eat what you kill" is rare for a UK firm.

I think talking about pay is vital for many reasons. In particular:

(1) Employees need to know whether they are being paid market rate - especially women who historically have been underpaid compared with men. One of the reasons this has been possible is because of the taboo against talking about pay. That taboo suits employers just fine.

(2) Those choosing a career path need to know which jobs are paid well (if that is something important to them, which it is to many). Of course it's also important that they are given the full picture about what's required to get and stay in the well paid jobs.

Before I had kids, oxbridge degree (4 years) + law school (2 years) + 7 years working in the city as a corporate lawyer = net pay of around £7k a month.

My background is immigrant parents who weren't wealthy, but who spent loads of time with their children and valued art, culture, education etc. As others have said, the salary was in return for work coming first. Work was exciting and challenging but often long hours (think 70 hours a week + not counting commute etc.), often travel, always contactable and having to check phone, very stressful trying to do anything other than work. I would say 90% of my colleagues weren't happy to varying degrees and there are plenty of anecdotal tales of career consultants' clients/ priory patients being mostly city lawyers.

DP has a first class geology degree (4 years) + masters (1 year) and has worked offshore in oil & gas for 8 years. He takes home £16k a month plus annual bonuses of around £200k + in return for a stressful job working away from home most of the time.

His background is working class, supportive family who weren't wealthy but who, like my family, placed a lot of value on time with their children. He was the first person to go to university from his family.

I became a SAHM when we had kids partly because DP's job required it and partly because I wasn't prepare to work 70+ hours a week with children (never mind being distracted when I WAS at home). We're now in the process of cashing in our savings and moving to a better job for DP and a better lifestyle for all of us. We both feel strongly that no amount of money is worth missing your children growing up and that "quality time" is just time - eating breakfast together, hanging around together etc. when none of you have something more important distracting you.

namechange you chose the worst of all worlds in the corporate department. Their hours are always brutal compared to, say, commercial, tax etc.

Plus IMVHO their ethos is the most macho - presenteeism etc.

In addition, you quit at 5 yrs PQE which is still very junior. So you suffered the downside of that job (long hours, no control). If you'd stayed until you were more senior (and had the ability) you would have been far more in charge of your own diary/hours. And your earnings would not be dependent solely on the fees you worked, but the work you brought in.

As DH always says, there is nowt more satisfying than earning money from work someone else does .

So whilst I'm not saying you should not have quit, I would challenge the view that legal work is always incompatible with family life. Or that everyone is miserable and acting out.

What I would say however, is that many of the people who gravitate to this sort of work are frankly not cut out for it. Certainly not in terms of making a long term career of it.

I'd agree with the notion that the early years are the toughest - true in most jobs. I doubt I will ever work as many hours as I did in my 20s. All-nighters were common then, whereas now I've only done 3 that I can remember in the last 10 years (and none in the last 5).

The work now might be more intellectually challenging, but I don't work anywhere near the hours I used to.

We just about scrape into the "minted" category. 2 lawyers - I'm in house at an investment bank, DH general counsel at a small fund. Live in London. We earn roughly equally (I am on slightly less as I work 4 days a week). Which seems relatively unusual on this thread.
We've both got here off our on bat in terms of connections (don't have any) but we've certainly worked out our networks since then. I will always remember someone telling me that a network is just the people you know and since then the idea of networking became a lot easier and more interesting. It doesn't have to be dull conferences; actually just keeping in touch with people you've previously worked with or colleagues that you get on with can be enough of a network. I am pretty introvert and have to force myself a LOT. But it's how both of us got our next jobs after law firms.
Most of our friendship group are very similar. Bright lower middle class kids who went to uni and got into good law firms and progressed onwards from there. Very few from private school, small amounts of cash from parents (maybe £10k towards a deposit, but not being bought a flat). We mostly have stable backgrounds with boring middle management parents outside London (mostly not Home Counties). So definitely something in the instilling of confidence/supporting our ambition side. Most are doing about the same as us; a couple have really pushed on to the “fucking wealthy” category (£4m house in North London). I’m NI Catholic and so the message was and has been “Get a fucking education” as the “jobs for life” were perceived as being hoarded by the Protestant community (obvs this has changed but it’s definitely reflected in the family pressure exerted on young people. Many more of my Catholic friends went to uni than Protestant, even in families with equally little exposure to higher education prior to that. I think there is something similar in BME communities and things like medicine).
I constantly remind myself that we are very well off. But with over 50% of our salary going on the mortgage and nanny (for 3 kids) and having to invest in DH's fund (basically he has to invest to be seen as committed - it will probably make us money in the long term but it's another average of 7-8% of our annual net income that we have had to pay in this year so not insignificant!), it's very much cash in/cash out! We live in a 4 bed terrace which needs a lot of work which we can't afford (holes in floors/30yo bathroom etc), drive a 7 yo Volvo and probably won't have a foreign holiday for 5 years. Our nanny is our luxury as we have no family close by to take up any slack. I pay through the nose. I have a cleaner for 4 hrs a week. Garden is tiny so we manage that ourselves (and I enjoy it). Kids will go to state primary (we definitely couldn’t afford private primary for three children). By the time they hit secondary, we won’t have to pay £30k a year for a nanny so actually the stretch to private will probably not be too bad.
Life is not particularly flashy. I like food and eating so we have one nice meal out a month (say £150 for 2). No time for hobbies really. DH has just bought himself a nice bike but it's for commuting. We try to buy good quality things and keep them for a long time. But not particularly designer. I am mostly dressed in Gap, Banana Republic, occasional Whistles and J Crew. Don’t get manicures, have a decent low maintenance haircut, barely wear makeup. I’d say the majority of my female colleagues (inc those who are actually the bankers) are the same – with possibly a bigger spend on clothes. But image is not that important provided you are tidy and conservatively dressed.
If Brexit hadn’t happened I would feel a lot more confident that we’d be more able to spend more money on ourselves but for now, we are building up cash reserves, paying down our mortgage and trying to get some money into pensions to give us some longer term security. Life can be stressful and very busy and when something goes wrong, it can be enough to reduce me to tears in terms of the knock on impact on my carefully constructed life. But I am extremely lucky to have a supportive boss and a good bunch of colleagues and DH’s recent job move has given him much more flexibility in terms of being able to dictate his time if he needs to (he is still in the office every day but eg does one bedtime every week without fail). Provided the work is done and he is available when needed, his employer is fairly relaxed.
So it’s not a bad life but probably not the life I would have expected to be living on £250k a year!

I always find it bizarre when people like stately call people like me "eccentric". I know far more wealthy people who hide their wealth than show it. I grew up in a whole town populated by these people. It kind of reminds me me of the time when I got a lift home for Thanksgiving break from my roommates bf.

He lived in Coneecticut and hung around with other city types and had the outward lifestyle described by many on this thread. I'd never shown any signs of having any money and so was not deemed of any particular interest to him. When we got near my house, I said that it was the next on the right. He looked and said, "that's a cute cottage". I said, "No, that's the garage". Then he saw the house and visibly flinched. I became much more interesting to him after that but he would needle me about not having all the stuff I should have had according to his world.

Having stuff won't make me any happier than I already am. In fact I think it would add unwanted pressure. I don't think that makes me eccentric. I think I mix in different circles as I'm normal in my world.

God I can't spell! Connecticut!

Free you're the living example of how £250k (or whatever) pa spread over two incomes (with all the costs of a two-person working family) buys a dramatically different lifestyle to £250k spread over one income with a SAHP.

Two parents who both commute = needing to live close to work, which is often London. That means large mortgage for not a large house (vs living where I live, which is really cheap in comparison to London). It also means nanny vs no childcare, and that's a big cost.

That's true queen but the tax is better spread over two earners and there might be two sets of pension contribution, healthcare etc.

This thread is wonderful.
DP has just completed his PhD and doesn't know where to step next, I'm considered to be "minted" by my friends and family because I'm on £40k at 25.
The hours on here don't phase us, as a Nanny a 50 hour week is a short one.
I think the points about opportunity and environment made up thread are particularly interesting; DPs parents are factory workers , mine are teachers and despite being very academic (DP) and business driven (me) we wouldn't know how to acheive the amazing careers people mention on here, as we've simply never met anyone in the industries or been taught about the job paths.
As you can imagine, we're devouring all the info on here hoping that being in our late 20s means we're not too late!

The tax advantage in the UK doesn't, IMO, make up for the lifestyle expenses of having two earners. And in France the tax disadvantage of spreading a high income over two earners makes the whole thing a farce.

The tax benefit doesn't outweigh the cost of working, IME. Or maybe that's just me being inefficient with how I manage my budget!

Someone referred to the importance of informal networking upthread, and how that can be to the disadvantage of women. I read this recently, and the comment made me remember it:

www.linkedin.com/pulse/single-biggest-mistake-ive-seen-women-make-work-sallie-krawcheck

Ignore the bit about investing - but the bit about treating work like school and ignoring the importance of "personal brand" (vomit-inducing term, but the concept has legs) chimed true for me.