If you are minted....

[FeralBeryl]

*What is your/ partner's career or job?
*
Not a TAAT more a TIBAT (inspired by a thread)

Someone has a monthly take home pay of £11k
Not going to lie, I fully intend to suddenly obtain the necessary qualifications overnight for whatever it is. sure there'll be an online course....

I know there will have been a great deal of sacrifice, no work home balance etc. I'm not wanting to judge at all-I'm enthralled

Please.

Resillience comes into it too. As the partner of a high earner there have been so many times when I've just had to deal with stuff. Many, many couples don't make it in our world and the knock on effect on finances and family wealth is huge. I think I might throw loyalty into the mix too.

Not just resilience within the relationship either but I recall when the children were six and three, I was recovering from laryngitis, dd had had a tummy bug, ds broke his arm which had to be reset. DH was on day three of a case in the High Court and booked into a hotel. DD had to be farmed out to my best friend. The comments at the hospital about support were inappropriate and implied DH was up to tricks, similar comments were made in the playground (leafy primary back then) about how I shouldn't put up with it and it wasn't fair etc. But, if I hadn't been able to cope with that sort of stuff and if DH's attention had been diluted and he had been perceived as unreliable at all, then he wouldn't have been as successful as he has been. Likewise if he had ever had to worry about milk, bread, the boiler, a clean shirt, it would have been a major distraction.

I do think, however, that our marriage strengthened when I went back to work when the children were both settled at school but although I work 8.45-5.45ish most days and am not terribly taxed I work as hard as he does because I organise home, properties, dc 21 and 18 now. I don't quite work full time because I have an additional four weeks of holiday, which I appreciate is a massive bonus.

It's all part of a puzzle but I can honestly say that it was never his or my intention to end up "minted".

What might be of interest I that I worry for the children. Whether they have had it too easy. Whether they will be taken advantage of. On the whole though they aren't spoilt. They've never had the latest phones, designer anything, etc. and perhaps that sums things up a bit. We live in a smart neighbourhood, shopping this morning everyone was quite well dressed and well spoken but there's very little evidence of flash. Much of it is relative. The South East, especially SW London/Surrey is not like the rest of the country.

Oh and I didn't mean to come off sounding snobbish. I mean that if I'd said, "Oh, I love DD's teacher this year" back when she was in a state school, MIL would have smiled and agreed with me. Now if I say that, MIL will frown and sniff, "He's not any better than a state school teacher." It makes me want to scream because I can't praise anything without it becoming "don't you go thinking you are better than us, you need put in your place" from MIL.

I am not minted. Love my profession but it's not one you'll get rich at. However, I know from others that actuaries can make a bomb.

Possibly cause it's really hard and kind of boring though - I don't know, never done it, but I get the impression that you have to be really fascinated by numbers and equations to really enjoy it.

DH doesn't come from a well connected family, although they were comfortably middle class so were able to pay his uni fees (in the US) and he had a decent state education. But he went through all the usual hoops to get his job, he didn't know anyone specific to get there. His parents/family had no knowledge of the sector so it's not as if they were able to coach him in any way either. It is all stuff he learned and picked up by himself.

I come from a very poor background (parents on benefits and lived in a council flat) and that had an impact on my education and confidence, and in turn my earning potential, so I do think it's much harder for those who come from poorer backgrounds. I've only ever been in low paid work or been a sahm, but I am doing postgrad study right now and that's only possible as DH can cover all our living costs plus the cost of upfront fees and childcare. Most other students on my course are supported by parents who can pay for all of that, and my parents certainly weren't able to do that.

We do get, or to be precise I get, endless comments from MIL about people like you and your family. Along with the passive aggressive comments about the children's private education. OTH she regards education as the holy grail and never mentions the other grandchildren's achievements which I find very sad for them. She's an odd woman though whose glass is half empty.

I agree that people who have come from an extremely poor background are less likely to end up minted. Whilst there are some for whom, adversity acts as a kick up the backside and a spur to overcome against the odds, the numbers who feel like that, PLUS have all of the character attributes or skills needed for success, such as business acumen, being willing to take risks, total focus and massive ability in a particular field, are of course very few.

Those from a very poor background are much more likely to experience less good quality education, lower aspirations from home and their peers and consequently of themselves. They might not have a chance to develop a strong work ethic, when it isn't around them. So yes, for those people it is harder....and they are less likely to end up with a spouse who has the benefits of a different background, simply because they are less likely to meet them.

However, most people are not from extremely poor backgrounds. They might not have been wealthy and attended top independent schools or mixed with the super rich, but most people have the chance to access an at least adequate education and to see some of the possibilities that life can offer. So, for the average person, I would say that background isn't the thing that really prevents them becoming minted. It is again simply the fact that the majority of average people don't have the characteristics and skills to become minted......they don't have the strategic mind, the total focus and dedication, the willingness to take risks which mean living a life on the edge sometimes which means you might not have a house next year, the outstanding skills and knowledge to be top of a field. They don't have the dogged determination and resilience to recover from set backs and push on for success. So for most people it isn't background but simply a lack of these kind of characteristics which means they will never become minted.

And of course, only a very few can be truly minted....otherwise,minted would be typical rather than very unusual. By definition, few of us can achieve that.

Regarding my extended family they all seem fairly pleased by our success, though they sometimes have unrealistic expectations about what it brings.

DH's family is trickier. His brother was meant to be the uber successful one. It is still a bit of an issue with my in laws very keen to bring DH down to size whenever they can ( whilst simultaneously milking him like a cow when they get a chance)

I try to downplay our wealth with my family (working-class, and don't like it when people get ideas and attitudes above their station). It's obvious that we are successful, and my parents have an inkling about DH's income, but I would imagine the extended family think he's earning about 300k and not 3m. I think it would be beyond their level of comprehension that his industry can pay so well.

With regard to the hard work aspect my husband is incredibly hard working, always has been, and his work has delayed family vacations, ensured non attendance at family celebrations etc. There is no off button. But others I know in low-paid jobs are just as hard-working but in a different way. The guys who landscape and tend our property (20 acres) blow me away. They are here for 12 hours once a week and literally do not stop. And DH's old secretary commuted daily 2.5 hours each way into NYC, providing a good life for her children in an affordable suburb. That's hard work. And coming from a working-class background, perhaps I have an easier time than some in recognizing that uber industriousness flourishes across all salary brackets.

In response to a previous post, I'm one of the ubiquitous strategy consultants. I'm freelance, and in ref to a pp who asked if the business would be better off without paying for consultancy - the idea is that yes they WILL be.

I'm brought in because of a deficit in skills / experience internally to help companies / agencies working on client projects with digital transformation projects.

The client I'm currently working with has an org chart for the restructured department which doesn't include a strategy role in it. The point being that if I do my job well, I make my role redundant. That's why I'm freelance. I come in, help them with the strategic direction to sort their shit out and get them on course, work with them to develop a plan for them to put it into practice, and then I fuck off and they get on with DOING it, as they don't need to pay me any more

ChocolateWombat I completely agree with your posts. Statistically the chances of someone who started off on the same graduate scheme as me in the mid 90s and ending up in my position now is 1%, and the chances of ending up on the grad scheme in the first place even tinier. My point is that where you have people who have the same degree, and same starting point, there those who will always make a very good income (compared to the average person) and those who will go on to be in the 1% of the population (those earning over £150k). Even in that 1%, there are differences, the top 0.1% (about 30,000 people in the U.K.) earn over £670k. I think the attributes of those 30,000 people are as you describe, typically someone who is very driven and focused with business acumen on top of a specialist skill, who is also a rainmaker and a strategic thinker who takes calculated risks.

My dcs are young so while we tell them they are very lucky, I am not sure if it means anything, e.g. there are things they take for granted, such as 4/5 holidays a year. I hope that we raise them with our values.

I earn much more as a contractor than I would in a permanent role

Day rates are always higher for freelance staff pro rata vs perm staff because of the uncertainty of the work, as well as no paid holidays, benefits etc

My day rate is high ish (one agency said I was at the 'premium' end of the market!) because companies are willing to pay for my skills. It's basic supply and demand. There's a dearth of people with the skills and experience I have, esp on a freelance basis, and they need someone to help then for a fixed period of time, without the overheads of a permanent employee

I have a family member who does property development in a large city. Attended uni.
He grew up in council housing.
"Income" takes years to materialize but when it does it's in the £M.
Imagine 3 pays over 10 years.
From that he pays several employees, office rental etc.
I see a love hate relationship with money and very challenging family situations.
He's very much a self made man, a very physically draining enterprise with international phone calls legal documents to review from multiple time zones. Very stressful "all in" mentality.

A family member has done that.
They took risk and move overseas. They worked like hell, few hols (about 3 weeks a year), weekends off need be, very long hours. Plus the risk of course and the stress.
They did very well and yes are now retired with that level of income still.

BUT they never used that money when they were working. No time for hols, or having weekends away. Not that bothered by the 'big' house etc.. But also always worried that the tide could turn so didn't dare buying the sort of stuff they could afford 'just in case'. Always safer to save 'just in case'.
It also means that they didn't have any other interest in life than work so retirement proved quite difficult....

Talking with them, they are of the opinion that some professions will lend themselves to that sort of situation. Accountant/finances, lawyer etc...

But you will have to expect no life at all.

I opopersonally want a better life balance TBH.

Most definitely not me..but a friend of the family is wealthy beyond most peoples imagination. This person trained as an accountant before going against everyone's advice and set up their own investment company. Basically working as a stock trader the company (overseas) has a turnover in the BILLIONS. Think a bit of luck and a lot of business accumen played its part!

Again, it's interesting to think about the different choices people make.....and if they really make choices or just find themselves stuck in a situation

I guess that many minted people develop a lifestyle to match their income. Even if they don't have much time for leisure due to the long working hours, they often buy big expensive houses, have children in independent schools which are expensive and other luxuries. I wonder how easy it is to choose to move away from the occupation that has made them minted, if they decide the work life balance isn't right for them at any point, after they have launched the lifestyle. Once your kids are in the independent schools it's pretty hard to pull them out, even if it is possible to reduce holidays o to downsize the house. So do people get stuck? Often on this thread people speak about their partner saying they would work the huge huge hours just for a number of hours, to achieve the promotion, or wealth or status or security they felt would satisfy them.....but the end to the huge hours never came....maybe because they were never satisfied with the income, or maybe just because they actually loved doing what they were involved in so much......but actually the partner was really waiting and hoping for an end to the huge no of hours. It's probably fine when both people in the couple have the same attitude towards it all - perhaps when both work in the business and are equally driven, but I think it's rare for 2 people to be absolutely equally committed and there is often one party who feels a bit of resentment about it all - especially if the work life balance is meant to improve over time and it never does.

One or two people on this thread talk about having been minted and irkiin the huge paying jobs, but that in the end it got too much - perhaps women more than men - and it's about the stress levels and uncertainty associated with risk, as well as the family impact. It seems that when the man alone is the big earner, the woman takes on a full or almost full childcare and domestic role, even if working. When both are the big earners or it is just the woman, it seems that usually (and I do t say always) the woman still has a domestic and childcare role to play, even if smaller...and it is that which seems to make women more than men feel they have to back off from these top jobs and roles, because to do the work to that level requires 100% commitment, which just isn't possible when there are still some family responsibilities. It's interesting isn't it, how there remains a difference.....looks like a factor in the glass ceiling to me. Perhaps women are more likely and more willing (often reluctantly) to back off from the top top jobs and businesses which demand all, because with children it is somehow harder for them than men to give that 100% commitment to work - however much they pay nannies and outsource the ironing and gardening, the family still places demands on them which they cannot ignore and feel compelled to respond to, in a way men seem to be able to resist, especially if they know their wife is around. They seem to be able to switch off from children more and 100% focus on work and not let the other things 'intrude' whereas even the most focused and driven women, somehow can't quite to that 100% extent. Wonder if people think I'm way of the mark here.....but it feels right to me, in light of what women are saying on this thread, both those who are the ones making/contributing via paid work to the minted situation, and those who are 'allowing' their DH to make the family minted by providing the back up domestic support which is equally important and frees him to be 100% focused.

Or perhaps chocolateWombat some of the women are just wired to want to be mothers. I had a City career until I was 35. I just wants to be a mother much much more when the time came. Perhaps I'd just achieved what I needed to achieve and was feeling ready to move on.

We were late twenties when we met. I had been earning a lot throughout my 20s and had a house and the modest trappings etc. When I met DH he was really skint, the fees weren't coming in and his landlord had a snake in the airing cupboard and feral cats in the outhouse. DH was thinking of doing something else and wouldn't give up the rented room before we got married although we weren't apart much.

Who took a chance on who eh . But our strength is that we married for love and if he'd ducked put we could have sold up, moved 50 miles out, educated the children and been perfectly happy on a "normal" middle class income.

DH was born into a wealthy family (his Dad managed bands in the USA, weirdest job I've ever heard of, family pride themselves on close relationships with musicians I've never heard of) and had a super-privileged childhood. I spent my first ten years in foster care and was eventually adopted by a lovely but definitely average-income family. My Dad (who saved everything then played the stock market very successfully during my teen years) gave my siblings and I some money when we each turned 18 and paid our way through Uni/College. I chose to save the money he'd given me and invest in a house with him to do up (late 90's you could still buy a little old-fashioned terrace for £35,000 and sell it for £90,000 if you had a retired Dad doing the doing-up). Invested wisely and built myself a little nest egg while I was at Uni. We've since bought and sold a lot of houses and earned a decent amount through it. I also work as a Teacher, but have the luxury of not having to work if ever I choose not to.

DH worked equally hard at Uni and became a Management Consultant. Initially he worked for others, eventually branched out alone and now has a great career which rewards him well for his hard work. I've no doubt that he wouldn't have the salary he does if he was a slacker or took the easy route; he is one of life's diligent grafters. His income is generally around £15,000 a month, but being self-employed he's had to always save and ensure there's enough for those rainy days. His work isn't the centre of our family; our DCs are. But it's not an option for him to take sick days or loads of time off when he's got stuff booked. On the other hand, he took 3 months off when DS2 was born and we didn't struggle financially. Swings and roundabouts.

Between us we live a lovely existence. Both of us appreciate it in different ways. Our DCs haven't ever known going without (in the poverty sense) and hopefully never will. DH works longer hours than me and often works away abroad. I'm ok with it and accept that it's a small downside to our charmed existence. But I don't think I know anyone who I'd class as high-income who hasn't worked bloody hard to reach that point. It's very rare anyone gets there through sheer luck and laughter.

Combined take home this year is set to be £160k plus, we have our own business. Month to month we don't know what we're going to earn, cash flow is a constant pain in the arse and we both find it hard to switch off, but the rewards and the freedom it gives us are worth every arse-clenching minute!

Yes I agree - I think lots of women are wired to be mothers....and that is why the 100% commitment needed in some work roles just isn't possible for some women once there are children. Doesn't mean they become housewives (although some do) but that they find a job or role within the business that can also accommodate being a mother. It seems that more men can be fathers in a way which still allows them to maintain that 100% focus on work too.

I think that if all of us can 'hold lightly' to our money, whether it be loads, or really not much, it's a good thing - if we don't gain our sense of worth from money or the lifestyle it gives us, if things do go a bit wrong and we have to change job or downsize house or lifestyle, it then isn't a disaster.....and as you say, if the big thing is the fact we love our partners and families, that probably does give us much of our value and allow us to 'hold lightly' to our possessions and roll with the knocks life can bring much better.

Consultant. Own business. Works like a dog (8-8 five days and an extra six or so at the weekend, one eye always on emails, only three weeks properly offline a year), at something crucial that very few people know about / understand.

He's also built it up over a decade.

Another insightful post ChocolateWombat. I'll be taking that advice.

People always bang on about how hard they work as if anybody who isn't loaded doesn't work hard. Also about being well qualified.
I teach - been enough publicity abut the hours. Have an MSc.
I have a cousin who works three jobs and is on the breadline - woman works her fingers to the bone.
There is a degree of luck involved and many, if they were honest, have been bankrolled by wealthy families to get them started in their businesses or high flying careers.

Well its 7pm on Saturday night. I started working at 6 am and have about 4 hours to go- have had a few 10 minute breaks whilst downloading the next batch of stuff etc. I have done 16 hours per day Monday to Thursday and about 10 on Friday.

Done a lot of non chargeable stuff (VAT returns and invoicing) By the end of today I will have earned about £1000 today and on track for a 16 hour day so £1500- £2000 tomorrow. Is it worth it? Well I am away on holiday for 12 days later this week and I wont earn anything then. As a self employed person you have to earn whilst you can.

My DH who earns more than I do probably has spent the day drinking beer and doing housework! He isn't self employed!

MY DH parents are very working class. They refused to give him any money to go to university even though they were meant to and so he had to work almost full time at the same time.

My parents were 1st generation uni and had jobs as teachers that at the time was a decent wage (better than now) but not rich. They both had a second job as well for most of my childhood. I think that is where my work ethic comes from. I also worked 20 hours a week through Uni when it was unusual to do so.

Interesting. I am in one of these careers but nowhere near that kind of money. I don't think I will get there either with taking time off for children over the next decade.

siimiss - have you read the whole thread? This issue of whether being minted is down to connections, or whether there is ever any suggestion that those with less money don't work hard has been covered lots of time. Whilst there is hard work behind the minted and whilst they might or might not have connections, there's loads more to it than those things. These guys tend to have characteristics that few of us have; they are strategic planners with high skill sets in areas where few people have them and very importantly they have business acumen and are prepared to take risks and live with the possible negative outcomes of that, in a way most people aren't willing to.

You teach and have an Msc - don't they give you a bit more ability to see a bigger and more complex reasoning behind why some people are minted and others aren't? No one is suggesting you don't work hard or aren't well qualified.....but you are qualified in something that very many people can do...you aren't extremely limited in supply. You work in a role which won't bring revenue to a company and the tasks you undertake don't involve the level of risk taking and consequent uncertainty about your financial future like these guys. At the end of the day, the things that make money are the things that have a high financial value.....this is the free market at work. What you do is really important and I know teachers work really hard and don't even have the chance to close the door on work when they go home, but what you do doesn't have massive financial value to a business,mso teachers will never earn an equivalent to some of these roles which involve working with mega bucks and so are then rewarded with a share of that.