Why are all children being immunised against flu?

[MiniChedda]

I am curious about this, my y1 DC is due to get it at school next week.

DD had flu but it was no worse than a sickness bug.

Wouldn't it be better to give the meningitis vaccine instead as it's so much more serious?

I've seen what flu can do to a healthy 6 foot 2 man. No way would I risk a small child going through that.

There is little point in trying to convince the 'anti-vaxxers' to vaccinate. It is an argument you will not win. However, I believe that the programme in place at the moment is working, and it allows for a small percentage of 'conscientious objectors'. I work in frontline NHS, and flu is much less common (in my area anyway), which is reassuring.

Hospital admissions AS A WHOLE are increasing, but the majority of these are due to cuts in elderly care. I'd really like to see spottydress's references regarding the flu vaccine being responsible? I have had my flu vaccine this year, not because I believe flu would kill ME, but to protect the vulnerable people I work with.

So many ignorant people not having 'flu jab where I work in hospital. Reasons are ' I've never needed it as I've not had 'flu before'
' don't really fancy it'
No actual justification. I'm 'flu champion at work and really have to hold back listening to people go on about why they will not have it. I think we have a duty to protect vunerable sick patients as well as ourselves. They are selfish in my mind not to have the vaccination.

CPTart I have to agree it doesn't sit right with me that kids are vaccinated when really it is the more vulnerable parts of society who need to be vaccinated.
Yes I made the mistake of rejecting the flu jab when I was part of a vulnerable group and spent a week in hospital. So yes I do know the difference between flu and a cold.

Somebody up thread mentioned that their child has taken ME after being vaccinated. That really does worry me. Are we going to wake up one day and say that we might have made a mistake? Plenty of things we thought were safe in the past turned out not to be. Look at the Gulf war veterans many of whom suffer illnesses because of the vaccines they were given.

Generally I am pro vaccine but the flu one just doesn't sit comfortably with me.
It's not that long since we started vaccinating children against the flu. I would like to see what percentage of children were hospitalised with flu on an annual basis prior to mass immunization and how that percentage has came down.

Herd immunity is important of course, but young children, including healthy ones, are a risk group for flu. It's not just about benefit to the community.

Another particular risk group is pregnant women and their unborn children- women who are pregnant are at much greater risk of serious complications and death if they catch flu while pregnant. And even if the woman has a relatively mild case of the flu, the foetus/baby is at higher risk of miscarriage/stillbirth.
My mother told me about baby she lost in late pregnancy to a flu epidemic (she was bed bound for 3 weeks), that was more than 40 years ago, there was no vaccine. There's a significant chance that it was me, or one of my young cousins who were the vectors, not that that was anyone's FAULT at that time, but we are lucky to have choices available to us now- we can choose to vaccinate.

when really it is the more vulnerable parts of society who need to be vaccinated.

DC ^ ARE vulnerable!!

Just had mine done - BIG TICK out the way.

sepsis when people on this thread have given justification, it's been shot down in flames.
There are plenty of health officials who do not give all vaccines to their children/themselves.
I personally, haven't just said "I'm not having it, I don't need it or my kids don't need it, I've researched for a very long time the pros and cons and gone with my final decision.

Just as I wouldn't tell someone who was having it that I didn't think they should have it, I would expect the same courtesy the other way when I choose not to have to it.

The people who choose to smoke don't NOT know the negatives.....they have heard how bad it is for you and still gone ahead with the decision to smoke.

MrEbear a very quick google search turned this up- it's a few years old but seems to conclude that the vaccination programme has a significant impact on flu-related hospitalization rates of children. Now, one has to consider that the effectiveness of the vaccine varies year on year, but overall it certainly reduces flu cases.

www.researchgate.net/publication/41190352_Effect_of_an_immunization_program_on_seasonal_influenza_hospitalizations_in_Mexican_children

verbana you haven't given justification, you've given anectode and your own personal feeling on the matter. Apologies if I've missed it but you don't appear to have actually provided any sources to back up your feelings, only the fact that you consider your children to be above illness and are happy to rely on the protection that other people's children provide.

Unlike your link which is a study from Mexico and doesn't relate to the UK cases of child hospitalisations??

sputternut www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/oct/05/government-wrong-nasal-spray-vaccine

My son can't have it as he will be in contact with vulnerable babies (prem)- told by consultant not to have it. I would of made him have it other wise.

Public Health England (PHE) have stated that in 2015-2016 the childhood flu vaccine was 57.6% effective in preventing flu in children. In the pilot study area, there was a reduction of 94% in children needing to see a GP for flu, and a 93% reduction in hospital admissions as a result of childhood flu. I've cited this from a primary care nursing journal (2016), but the full report is now available from PHE.

Verbena that's a really interesting article, but it was published in 2014. The evidence from this year is quite different.

Verbena - You've quoted an article that is two years old. I wonder if the nasal vaccine has been amended since then? The Lancet report that the article references was published six years ago. No-one has been particularly backwards in coming forwards about concerns over the effectiveness of LAIV.

However, it's worth noting that while the CDC doesn't recommend use of the nasal vaccine, it absolutely does not recommend against vaccinating altogether, just that an injected vaccine is the way to go, not the spray.

This article, an opinion piece from a published expert in vaccines, is linked to from this article quotes above. You can read it for a more balanced view: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/06/flu-shots-vaccination-side-effects

On a personal note - I'm happily getting the flu jab. I have a compromised immune system and other complications and was 'too busy' to get the flu shot one year. I got flu, I nearly ended up in hospital, I was a mess and it took me six months to recover. The drowning analogy further upthread is spot on - I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Flu kills people. It kills people of all ages. It nearly killed me. Get the bloody injection.

www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/03/uk-flu-study-many-are-infected-few-are-sick

I suspect that both I and my children will have had flu more times than the couple of occasions where I had a "bad case" of flu. I think the misconception that all flu is debilitating rather feeds into the fear of the illness, however the vunerable in society do need protection.

[[https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/530756/Influenza_vaccine_effectiveness_in_primary_care_in_children.pdf 2015-16 flu data

[[https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/530756/Influenza_vaccine_effectiveness_in_primary_care_in_children.pdf 2015-16 flu data

verbena I have 'mild' asthma - rarely need to use ventolin etc but doctors hate that term - any asthma can kill that is the scary reality. My wife is a hospital doctor, she and every other HCP she knows has had the jab. She has seen many young fit healthy people with no asthma end up in intensive care on ventilators due to flu.
It's one injection, I had it a couple of weeks ago, felt off for a couple of days and had a slightly sore arm. That is it.
While your DD may well be Gillick competent in regard to her medical treatment, with you as her parent and advisor she hasn't really had a chance to make an informed vaccination choice.
If an NHS nurse at an asthma clinic said that I would absolutely eat my proverbial hat, no RN would go against guidelines in such a way - imagine the fallout if your DD got seriously ill with flu!

Ok, stepping away from this thread now. I have told you about my time in Intensive Care as a result of flu and you remain convinced that the flu jab is pointless for most people. Let's just comfort ourselves with the thought that it could never happen to you or anyone you love.

I have no DC, but I do have asthma and I've had a flu jab every year since being diagnosed with it. Funnily I was diagnosed with asthma after having had either flu or a really bad cold that just wouldn't shift.

I'm also now disabled (totally unrelated) but every cough/sneeze of my current cold (and it is just a horrible cold not flu) is painful. I'm wheezing, standing in the shower with it on quite hot (pointing away from me) just to help me breath. I woke up a few times last night hardly being able to breath, I've been breathing in the steam from vicks in hot water, I'm covered in vicks, taking everything I can. And this is a cold! If it gets much worse and my inhalers can't help I'm going to have to call an ambulance.
If I did get the flu I wouldn't be messing about, I'd have my DP home 24/7 ready to take me. Now imagine that in an older relative, maybe one who is more stubborn than I am, or one who lives alone... I know I have 2 close relatives like that, and a few not so close, never mind the people you bump into on the street.

So yeah I'd encourage everyone who is able to to get a flu vaccine. And for kids isn't it just a spray up their nose now? Not even a needle???
I've just booked my DP in for a flu jab at our local boots. Full price is £12.99, and tbh if we didn't have the money I could put him as a carer (which really he is) and get him free. But we do and I'm hoping my disability isn't permanent (op coming soon). My asthma and crap immune system is though.

I'm intending on getting my dd (2.5) immunised, if her father agrees. More to protect others around her than herself. her younger cousin was born Prem and suffers with reoccurring chest infections/pneumonia as a result and I would hate for him to get flu as a result of her. We also have a relative we visit often in a nursing home, so would hate for them to get it too

I never claimed it was about the U.K. I said it was the result of a quick google to answer a specific question about whether vaccination programs have ever been proven to reduce the rate of hospitalization. That is one study, in one country. Others have provided info about the U.K. If you care to follow it up.

More importantly, I also never said that I had "provided justification" for my views and been ignored.

I'm joining others in leaving this thread. It makes me too angry and as pp have said, anti vaxxers generally won't be swayed.

Sad really.

I was a healthy young adult when I got flu 7 years ago. As a direct result, I can no longer walk normally nor breathe normally, I've got a compromised immune system and I've had multiple surgeries. Why would you risk that?