To expect to be paid more than half? (Pic included)

[MrsA2015]

Background: I'm a home baker using decent/top quality ingredients in my cakes, friends and family buy off me for special events and am trying to kick start a little baking business from home ( after receiving loads of compliments and encouragement which I'm thankful for!) A friend has requested a cake (pictured) and offered well below the asking price knowing what quality I use and usually the one to berate others if they take the mick when it comes to price. I don't over charge and usually find I've undrecharged when adding up costs ( new to this). How much would you expect to pay for this cake? I'm just feeling a little upset really, I love her and will still make it just surprised at asking to pay less than half. I understand mates rates and all...
Before you ask
Yes she can afford it
I don't buy wholesale ingredients
No I didn't stick to my price (out of shock)

This has been interesting. Prior to opening this thread, I would have probably also offered around £40 feeling generous. Genuinely had no concept of how long this would take or of the cost of ingredients. I would have assumed the cost to lie at about £15 at most and if it was a friend who made cakes as a hobby (and presumably offered to make a cake) I would have not expected to pay you for your time.

So unless this friend is actually a bit of a jerk, maybe just gently pointing out how much the ingredients actually cost and the hours needed to make it (and that rather than doing this for fun on the side because you like baking it is actually 'work') should get her to either pay you appropriately or decide that she can't actually afford a cake like that.

(Before anyone says that I would be taking advantage of friend, I have spend days baking, sewing, knitting, tutoring, babysitting and what not for friends - because I enjoy it, because I like my friends and to some extend because I know they would do the same for me).

Made this cake 14" square and 3" tall then carved into shape. It's double chocolate fudge cake with chocolate ganache as filling and crumb coat.
Designed the template myself and cut it out from thick card to use as a guide when shaping cake. Used free range eggs, real butter and expensive chocolate, etc. Coloured the fondant myself which takes time.

Everything is edible on the cake. The board is thick to support the heavy weight (1/2" thick) and alone cost almost £4. Including all colourings, ingredients, electric, wear and tear, box, board, etc the cake cost me around £30 to make.

This didn't include my time. I guess I spent 2 days on it altogether, including designing and cutting out template, mixing and baking, decorating, etc.

As I'm only a hobby baker, I don't feel my cakes are perfect enough, so I struggle to charge for them and, although I live down south, the ppl around here wouldn't pay much for a cake anyway (as they see them in tesco for £10-15).

I received £40 for the cake, and felt bad asking for that much. I do enjoy doing it though and every cake gives me a chance to improve.

Sorry it's not such a great picture. I'd lost my originals and at the time I got them from my df via his computer by taking a screenshot.

OP -- please please please come back and tell us how you went. A lot of people are invested in your cake now!! Good luck!!
On another note - great news about a new baby in the family - if your negotiations fail with 'friend' (snicker), just say you can't do it because you need to help do baby stuff.

I agree, I bake cakes for family and friends, at a huge discount, I make NO profit, start as you mean to go on, or assured friends and family will take the mickey and expect high end top class cakes for low price supermarket costs...you MUST count your time and electricity/gas/standing/tin lining/sourcing good's/postage/boxes and boards/ingredients and specialist colourings and flavourings...PLEASE, DONT UNDERVALUE YOUR TIME, and dont do 'favours', you'll end up feeling 'obliged' and worthless...YES, this is a £150+ cake, if you can make a profit and feel comfortable at £100 (mates rates) then go for it, but dont EVER, undervalue your talent or accept a menial (insulting) price...you know the cost, you know your time, you know the effort, from lining tins to out of hours working...it's worth FAR MORE THAN YOUR MOST LIKELY BEING OFFERED.
I personally no longer bake other than for my own children/grandchildren, the hours spent equate to pennies when costing everything in, and once your in that scenario of 'mates rates' there is NO turning back, and you wont get any joy from creating your masterpieces.

I worked in a cake shop selling this sort of cake. That is 150 pounds...minimum.....more like 200.

This thread made me bake today. It took me about 5 hours to make. And it's not even decorated or anything.
Just like GBBO wasn't enough.
At least I won't have to bake tomorrow.

Hobby do you colour ready made icing? How?!

I find it almost imposible to get anything like the right colour so I make my own with marshmallows (thank you Nadia!) as you get a better depth of colour, but its a massive PITA to make so if there is a trick to colour ready made would you PLEASE share it!

Loving this thread. Have been hobby making cakes for friends and family for a couple of years. Always swear I'm not doing it again as I forget in between how much work it is.

My own cake story: offered to make a mum friend her dds first bday cake (free). Was planning simple "1", baked in a 1 shape cake pan, simple buttercream icing piped on etc. Gave her a list of supplies that I didn't have. She showed up at my house, told me she met a lady at the supply store who told her how easy it was to make a two tier cake with home made fondant and decorations (bear in mind i had told her I'd never done fondant only buttercream before) so she decided to buy all the supplies for this cake without even telling me. At the time, I was pretty taken aback and thought it was cheeky altho she did come over three nights to help after our kids went to bed (9pm-midnight!) - I was SAHM with a 6 month old. Those bloody decorations had to be moulded and applied by hand - argh!!!
Cake turned out pretty good I thought (did do a small test cake to make sure i didn't mess it up), and turned out friend was a very good friend (stepped in last minute many times to babysit when stuff came up). Have not learned my lesson as recently happened again with another mum friend ...

If anyone's willing, I'm interested to know how much would you pay for a cake like that? (Layers were approx. 10" and 8" diameter I think).

bogeyface - I know this one!!!

Two tricks - add colour to marshmallow fondant before sugar (i.e. Liquid empty stage) ... Or... Grease up your stand mixer bowl and beater blade/dough hook super good and use that to knead the colour into the fondant.

Good tip with the mixer expat - thank you from me too!

Bogey I sometimes dye my own rolling icing too. I use a cocktail stick loaded with Wiltons gel dyes & prick all over the block of icing & wearing those thin throw away rubber gloves, the medical type you buy in boxes in Poundland & the likes. I oil the gloves & bowl lightly & then knead the colour through in the bowl. Though I think bar the pricking the colour in with a cocktail stick, I will be trying expats suggestion next time I try it.

I find this is good for getting more unusual colours & marbled icing too

So how much did she offer?Its a fantastic cake and anything under £100 is a joke but can't believe someone suggested £300?I don't know if location makes a difference but think a few are over pricing it sorry

She offered £40

Cake Ninja, there's a tin?! A tin?!? I carved the bloody thing out of cake and 'loveingly' shaped each individual pony and stamped out each flower. How did I not know there was a tin

Cake ninja. You meant the tin the cake is standing on didn't you . Whilst we clearly have excellent taste in tins I am disappointed there is no cake tin shaped like a stable.

I also didn't realise how expensive handmade cakes were!! But totally makes sense as these probably took me most of a day, and are pretty easy - they're the simplest I could find that also met my DTs expectations!
Now want to know how the conversation with the friend went... Go OP!

Yes, say a cake takes 6 hours and you pay yourself minimum wage - that's already £43.20. People don't seem to think you should pay yourself though!

Good Luck today OP, hope the conversation goes well

I make bunting and had the same issue I don't do mates rates and family discounts

It's it's a gift then that's Diffrent

Why don't you ask her to buy the ingredients as well as the £40 for your time and expertise. At least that way you are not out of pocket. I think that is more than reasonable and it will highlight to your friend the kind of costs involved without you even having to tell her

Yeah, I add my colour before I add the icing sugar, but it would be nice to colour ready made sometimes. Will try the pricking technique next time!

Phone calls are good.

However, it will probably go better if you send Teens text first, ending with "I'll phone you later to chat about it."

This is because when you tell her she can't have what she wants, she will be disappointed. When you tell her gently that her price would mean she is taking advantage of you, her initial reaction will be to get defensive. This is human nature.

Text her first. She will be initially disappointed and defensive of course. She will have a huff around her house muttering to herself. Then she will come round to realising you have a point and will work out the right way to talk to you about it later and stay friends, etc. Thus your actual conversation will be much easier.

Even the nicest non -brass necked people tend to react like this.

Learning about crumb coating was very interesting!

I can never understand how 'friends' think it is fine to ask for skilled work to be essentially free as they have only covered the ingredients/materials. You're paying for ingredients + labour + skill.

I design gardens and don't do mates rates anymore - I did when I started out, but found I spent longer on mates projects and so it was a double discount. Price is the price - you wouldn't get mates rates in a salaried job.

Friend should go into white company or marks and Spencer's to try to negotiate reduced prices - let's see how she gets on.