Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect to be paid more than half? (Pic included)

817 replies

MrsA2015 · 10/10/2016 17:58

Background: I'm a home baker using decent/top quality ingredients in my cakes, friends and family buy off me for special events and am trying to kick start a little baking business from home ( after receiving loads of compliments and encouragement which I'm thankful for!) A friend has requested a cake (pictured) and offered well below the asking price knowing what quality I use and usually the one to berate others if they take the mick when it comes to price. I don't over charge and usually find I've undrecharged when adding up costs ( new to this). How much would you expect to pay for this cake? I'm just feeling a little upset really, I love her and will still make it just surprised at asking to pay less than half. I understand mates rates and all...
Before you ask
Yes she can afford it
I don't buy wholesale ingredients
No I didn't stick to my price (out of shock)

To expect to be paid more than half? (Pic included)
OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
maybethedayafter · 11/10/2016 11:28

How does she think one tier is worth £35 and the other tier £5?

*misses point

2kids2dogsnosense · 11/10/2016 11:31

How does she think one tier is worth £35 and the other tier £5?

Discount for bulk? Grin

Lucky it wasn't 3 tiers - OP might have ended up owing her money.

HarryPottersMagicWand · 11/10/2016 11:35

Nope, tell her to jog on.

Say you have costed the price of the ingredients, factored in the however many days it will actually take and 10p an hour (or whatever it is, do actually calculate this) is not good enough so it's £80 (which is still cheap) or you're not doing it and direct her to Tesco.

My friend had a cake made for her DS's birthday. It was a Harry Potter one and was AMAZING! It was £80 and well worth it. That was one square cake.

shovetheholly · 11/10/2016 11:38

I think with friendship, it's all about reciprocity.

I have friends where I have done a week's work for them - really painstaking work, with long days, for free. But they have been there for me in amazing ways that are 'worth' just as much (though you couldn't probably monetize them as easily). So it is an exchange built on love and friendship, between one thing of a certain monetary value and another that is just as valuable but can't be monetized in the same way.

I think if a relationship is all one way, that is a very different matter. It's not fair if someone is always being asked to give, give, give because they run a business and there is no reciprocity at all.

These lines are really difficult for people with a business. It sounds very awkward, OP. Flowers

TeenAndTween · 11/10/2016 11:39

OP. Be assertive.

Friend, I have looked into the time and costings and there no way I can make the cake for £40. I'm sure you weren't trying to take advantage and have just underestimated the ingredients and time involved. However, the price allowing for ingredients, time and expertise will need to be £XXX. I will understand if that is outside your budget, but I am sorry I cannot do it for less.

Good luck.

shovetheholly · 11/10/2016 11:40

Oh, and if you're not getting much out of this friendship, I would contact your friend by email and give her a breakdown of the cost of the ingredients and then a "mates rates" quote on the labour so you still get paid but at a slightly reduced rate. Really spelling out every single element of the cake may help her to see more clearly.

confuugled1 · 11/10/2016 11:44

When I said earlier about asking for the £40 plus the ingredients and things like cake boards, box, topper etc, I hope that you didn't think that I meant that I thought what you did and 2 days of your time was worth £40, I just thought it might be the easiest way to get a conversation going about getting more money from the friend and so that you at least weren't out of pocket for making the cake for her (although I'm guessing that even just things like the washing up and electricity would cost a fair bit...

Having read more of the thread, I definitely think you should ask friend to get the ingredients for you (including getting the right brand to taste nice rather than the supermarket basics range) - doing a big shop that includes heavy flour and sugar plus lots of eggs is never going to be fun with a new toddler. And depending on whether or not you can drive or walk or bus to the supermarket that can take a good chunk of day in itself - might as well be her life that is used up doing this rather than yours as she values you so little...

I also think that you should ask her to watch over your dd while you bake as obviously it's not conducive to being able to bake well if you have to keep running off at critical moments or disappearing off to change a nappy or worry about little fingers touching the oven or the cake... And again - if she's not prepared to give up two days to you making this cake then why does she think that you should be giving up two days to make this cake?

LikeDylanInTheMovies · 11/10/2016 11:48

Astonishing good op I'm not a cake person at all, but that had me drooling.

My dad is very adept at fixing computers and became he is a retired IT teacher, good at showing people how to use them, breaking it down into easy to follow steps. He fixed a few people's computers and gave them some pointers on what to do and then did some upgrades for them and was building computers from scratch without payment (parts aside) his friends told there friends and relatives and now whenever I'm at his house there's always a computer strewn across the table in a state of semi-assembly.

He thought half heartedly about doing it as an income generator, but he's now fixed so many people's computers for nothing, so many times he'd be embarrassed to ask for money, even though he's pretty much doing it all of his free time. Don't get me wrong, he loves tinkering with computers, but I love what I do for a living, but still expect to be paid.

I guess the moral of the story is to restrict the circle of people you do mates rates for to a small number, otherwise your entire extended network and all their friends will expect top quality at cost price.

Oldraver · 11/10/2016 11:52

BadBunny I agree...it seems there are lots of craft/making type things people dont wnat to do themselves even though it would 'only take an hour'

I managed to keep secret for years (in a military town) that I used to work for the camp tailor and my job was sewing. The first person I told wasted no time inviting me for coffee then telling me her DH had just got promoted and...."they want £150 to change all his rank badges etc".Erm, yea, as it takes ages and is a ball ache, and I never like doing the gold braid

I did offer to give her a few tips so she could do it herself Grin

Rachel0Greep · 11/10/2016 12:17

I did offer to give her a few tips so she could do it herself

Love it! That's exactly the way to deal with people who try to take the p1ss.
OP, I hope you stand firm, in, at the very least, getting her to purchase all the ingredients as well as paying you. The problem is, if she gets this for forty quid, she will probably spread the word - and think she is doing you a favour.

honeysucklejasmine · 11/10/2016 12:24

I paid £60 for an 8" double height sponge cake, with white chocolate and raspberry grenache and fondant flower decorations.

It was an absolute bargain!

lb364 · 11/10/2016 12:29

I would expect to pay £175-£225 for that cake, maybe £125 for mates rates but no less.

Your friend is taking the p, give in to her now and she'll be back for every other occasion!

Let me know if you deliver to Herts Grin

Stormtreader · 11/10/2016 12:35

I guessed she'd offer £40, Im feeling quite pleased with myself :D

mmay2875 · 11/10/2016 12:48

Ask your friend if she gets paid for doing her job, or does she owe her employer a favour? That's what happens when people expect mates rates. You end up giving them hours of your time for free. I don't do that any more. I give a price. If they say it's too high, I say I can't go any lower. That allows them to make the choice between whether to still ask you to make the cake as quoted, or go elsewhere/without. The trouble is, people tend not to see the value in anything beyond what they perceive the cost of ingredients to be, let alone materials, equipment, other real overheads or your time and skills. The worst thing is when they say they could get it in the supermarket for £12. In that case, invite them to do just that!

mysistersimone · 11/10/2016 13:04

I hope you're successful in the re negotiations. Say you've costed it and give her a price for all the ingredients. Then say nice and clearly, that's without paying for the 2 days it will take to make it. What do you think is fair for labour costs?? Cheeky bitch

Mumsbakecakes16 · 11/10/2016 13:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FrancineSmith · 11/10/2016 13:26

It does depend on the size, quality of ingredients used, you're local market and, without sounding unkind, your own skill level at reproducing that cake.

I can't imagine charging less than £150 even if it's only a 6/8". I also wouldn't be at all surprised if you've massively undervalued your work and we're only planning on charging £60 and she's offered you £30.

The thing is, most people have no idea what goes into producing a cake like that. As a baker, it's your responsibility to educate them in the nicest possible way. Many people can't afford to or wouldn't feel right paying so much for a cake, but the reality is that it is a skill and an art form and to undercharge is doing a disservice to your own business and the industry as a whole.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 11/10/2016 13:29

I'd love to know what the people who are like "it's just eggs and flour etc" do for a living. I guarantee they wouldn't be happy to have their skills minimised as 'just paper shuffling', 'just banging a few buttons on a keyboard', 'just driving here and there' etc.

Original poster
MrsA2015 · 11/10/2016 13:36

My goodness I can't get over the response ! I'm not even going to go into it as many of you have kindly explained why it'll take two days also the cost involved! Haven't messaged her yet as quite busy with SIL having a baby this morning! Wondering how to word it without coming off as mucking about? Can somebody lend me their backbone!

OP posts:
TeenAndTween · 11/10/2016 13:41

Posted upthread, but here is some wording for you:

Friend, I have looked into the time and costings and there no way I can make the cake for £40. I'm sure you weren't trying to take advantage and have just underestimated the ingredients and time involved. However, the price allowing for ingredients, time and expertise will need to be £XXX. I will understand if that is outside your budget, but I am sorry I cannot do it for less.

Mummyoflittledragon · 11/10/2016 13:46

That sounds perfect Teen and Tween

KayTee87 · 11/10/2016 13:48

I would send her a text saying 'hello xx, I've just priced the ingredients for the cake you wanted and they come to xx. The work will take two days but due to you being a friend I would only ask for xx for my time :) hope you love the cake'

KayTee87 · 11/10/2016 13:49

Or what teen said!

acatcalledjohn · 11/10/2016 13:49
expatinscotland · 11/10/2016 13:50

Message her if you're a doormat. 'I've had a better look at the cost for making this cake and unfortunately I cannot do it for £40. Sorry, but it's beyond what I can do at present. Hope you understand. xxx' Because really, you don't want to work for pisstakers. They count on your being a doormat to take advantage.