The term 'coloured'

[Ticktock12]

So I'm a new member of a team and one of my colleagues described someone and said 'Oh the coloured lady'. I corrected her obviously stating its offensive.
Aibu or is this a term people still use?

I was appalled when I heard it and even told a black person that he couldn't use that word. He asked me why and said "But N isn't bad". He was very confused why it was a negative word.

Are you white or black collars? He surely must have known that it is a "bad word" but is it possible that his confusion could have come from you telling him it is? Either because you're a white person telling him he can't use the word (which would be ) or because you're black and feel uncomfortable with other black people saying it?

I personally hate it when other black people refer to me as "n" (Dean Atta's poem 'I Am Nobody's Nigger' worded my feelings on it perfectly) but at the same time have some understanding of why some black people feel ok using it within our community. I'll always say "don't call me that" but won't stop them saying it to someone else. What I'm far more uncomfortable with is white people using it because they think they're a part of the community because they have black friends, or with white people who tell black people that they can't use the word. It's not up to them!

Surely Mumsnet isn't the only place you'd find out that "coloured" is no longer acceptable though nickname? I mean, I do understand the generational thing so would happily correct an older person using it (and would only be annoyed if they were the ones who then got offended), but that can't only happen on MN, surely? Where on earth do you live for so many people to still be comfortable with "coloured"?

Irrespective of how or when or where we were brought up, us older folk are still capable of learning, no? And of modifying our language without making a fuss if we find it gives offence.

I agree Flo. It always amazes me when people defend their rights to make casually racist comments because of their age!

I grew up in the 80's and this term was use to describe black peoples, in the village I was in, however I thought it was widely know it was now offensive, however saying this I had to correct someone on here a few months back for using it.

It's a minefield. I have a friend who finds it very offensive to be described as black, another who says he's black. I now describe some one by their clothes/say their name if I know them or truly to guess heritage.
Maybe mums net could do a poll on what is correct terms to use?

I agree Flo. It always amazes me when people defend their rights to make casually racist comments because of their age!

Yes, and people my age and not much older who argue 'i was brought up to think X or y term was polite. ' I assume they no longer believe everything else they were told in the 1970s or 1980s. I assume they didn't blindly follow their own parents wisdom on childrearing wholesale, have different expectations for what a woman's role will be than their mother or father, manage to cope with a phone and a car radically more sophisticated than the one they used 30 years ago, but somehow their views on 'race' and ethnicity remain preserved in aspic.

"It's a minefield. I have a friend who finds it very offensive to be described as black, another who says he's black."

1. It's not a minefield.
2. No, you don't. Well, unless your friend is an Oompa-Loompa and a campaigner for orange rights........

It's definitely a generational thing. My parents who are both in their early 70s would refer to people as "coloured" not "black" as that was the preferred terminology for a long time. One of the main organisations campaigning for Civil Rights in the USA was the NAACP - the national association for the advancement of colored people.

It's not a term I'd use. But I understand that people who DO use it are often not trying to be deliberately offensive.

So people in their 70s are incapable of learning?

It a total minefield - some prefer coloured, some black, I have one friend who only answers to negro and would hate to be called black.

Oh no, wait - I'm making things up on the internet again. FFS it's not difficult.

It really isn't a minefield

That's what people say when they're fed up with pretending to give a shit, so resort to blaming those pesky brown people for being too 'sensitive' and society for being 'too PC'.

splendide

No people in their 70s are not incapable of learning. You can point out that "coloured" really isn't acceptable any more and if you need to use a word, black or Asian is better. But when you have been under the impression that you've been using the right words all of your life it's hard to make the change, especially when you're living in a part of the country which is almost exclusively white and you can go weeks without seeing anyone who is black/Asian/mixed race.

I have a friend who finds it very offensive to be described as black

Me too, but my friend is Nick Griffin.

Last weekend my FIL referred to someone he knows as "the ni**er in the woodpile" (a term SO offensive I can't even type it) and when I pulled him up on it and told him NEVER to use that term in earshot of my children or me again he said "Oh it's just an expression".

Although he is in general very racist, sexist, homophobic and anti-Semitic. Not a generational excuse for it though, he's just an arse.

"It a total minefield - some prefer coloured, some black, I have one friend who only answers to negro and would hate to be called black.

Oh no, wait - I'm making things up on the internet again. FFS it's not difficult."

All my black friends think it's hilarous when I call them "nigga" and "chocolate face". They call me "honky" and "whitey" and we laugh and laugh. Oh, the banter..........

What I have learned, from speaking to people from BAME groups, is that it's not the terminology that use that is important, it is the intent of the language.

Years ago I went on some amazing cultural awareness training with SARI. www.sariweb.org.uk/who-we-are/

They reiterated the same thing. If no offence is meant, then none will be taken, but efforts should be made to introduce the correct terms used at that time.

There was a rather vile incident on here recently, when I disclosed that my ethnic group is Bosniak, and I was born in the region now known as Kosovo, I had a couple of posters assume I was a Bosnian Muslim. I tried to correct them a few times, stating that I am not Bosnian nor Muslim, but this was ignored. For what it is worth, most Bosniaks live in Bosnia, and just over half are Muslim. The reason why Bosniaks were called "Muslims" or "Bosnian Muslims" is because the ethic group Bosniak was not recognised, therefore in Yugoslavia we were just referred to as "Muslims".

The incident above is a bit like calling Native Americans Indians. It's fine to make mistakes, but if you keep ignoring the correct information and insist on using your own incorrect terms, THATS the point at which it becomes offensive.

All my black friends think it's hilarous when I call them "nigga" and "chocolate face". They call me "honky" and "whitey" and we laugh and laugh. Oh, the banter..........

oh Bertrand! Haven't we talked about this before? You're getting real life and the 1970s sitcom 'Love thy neighbour' mixed up again.

I assume they no longer believe everything else they were told in the 1970s or 1980s [...] but somehow their views on 'race' and ethnicity remain preserved in aspic.

This! Reading some of the posts here, you'd think the terminology had changed every year for forty years, with each new word sent out in top-secret to a limited mailing list of people who would JUDGE YOU for inadvertantly slipping up.

Is it just a race thing, not noticing which words have dropped out of widely-accepted useage? Did you get the memo about 'spastic' (hey, we had a Spastics Society until 1994) and 'cripple' and 'the retarded boy'?

I come from a rural, non-diverse area where older people often still say 'coloured'. There is usually an awkward little pause before the word, sometimes out of sudden uncertainty ('oh shit... that doesn't sound right; when was the last time I heard or read the word 'coloured'?; but I've started so I have to finish'), sometimes from a sense of delicacy ( 'I mean BLACK, of course, but I should hate to be so crass as to refer to that disadvantage'), and occasionally with visible distaste ('this... [ugh, can hardly say it]... coloured chappy').

IME, the first set of people are embarrassed but responsive if you say anything, the second are a bit grumpy ('what? I'm trying to be polite! I can't just say BLACK, that's terribly insulting'), and the third will go off on a PC-gorn-mad rant that generally throws in as many offensive terms as possible.

And there's always the 'no offense intended, so nobody is allowed to feel offended' response. I appreciate there might not be overt racism in using any term, but a complete lack of interest in or respect for how groups of people choose to define themselves is, in its own way, offensive. Yeahyeahyeah, black, coloured, whatever -- can't keep up, can't be bothered.

a complete lack of interest in or respect for how groups of people choose to define themselves is, in its own way, offensive.

Exactly this (again!) That's why I'm confused with people claiming that they only know "coloured" isn't okay anymore because of Mumsnet. How? Are you really that insular?

It is offensive and you were right to correct her OP.

When I grew up that was the term we used and to say 'black' was offensive.

Ive had to correct my mum and my step father, who are mortified when they get it wrong. Some people just don't realise and until we tell them they can't adjust.

My dad is in his 50s and used to say 'coloured' because when he was growing up this was considered the polite term and calling someone 'black' was seen as rude.

When I went to school and referred to people as coloured or 'half-caste' a teacher had to explain to me that it wasn't polite, and I was really embarrassed, since I wasn't trying to be racist or offensive, those were just the words used at home. I never used them again.

My dad still finds it uncomfortable to describe people as black, but he did listen to my explanation that it isn't about him - so I don't think 'older' people can't change, but they have to care enough to make the effort. (Sorry, posters in your 50s! I don't mean to generalise and I think my dad is particularly old-fashioned in this respect - but the principle holds for people in their 90s, too!)

I have to say I don't really understand the American 'of color' thing, but if an individual told me they preferred that term, I'd use it for them. (I've also seen, bizarrely, 'people of size' for heavier people. Everyone has a size... )

To give you an idea about the complexities of race:

I'm of South East Asian origin raised in an Indian family. I look just like my mum's side of the family (even though we're different 'races'). My sister and brother look 'whiter' than any 'white' person I've ever met. My neice looks more 'Asian' than I do (she's full on Indian) and has been talked at in Chinese many times because many people make presumptions.

In fact my youngest brother is the only one who looks even remotely like the stereotype most white people have about Indians. That's 1 person who 'looks like their race' in the whole family.

But most 'white' people don't need to think about any of that. They're not taught about how complex race can be, just about race in comparison to them which is bullshit. So everybody is 'coloured' or 'black' until someone calls them out on being racist.