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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder if this is really happening? parents are being asked to confirm if their kids are British born.

344 replies

someonestolemynick · 06/10/2016 13:04

A few messages popped up on social media today by parents whose school asked them to confirm if the child in question is foreign born. One friend said this was being done by all schools today.
I don't have kids and am an EU national.
I have been disappointed by the referendum result but have adopted a "Wait and see" approach.
Yesterday's announcements of companies having to list foreign employees coupled with today's rumours is really freaking me out.

Have you been asked today to confirm your child's nationality by their school? Aibu to be fucking terrified?

OP posts:
justgivemeamo · 08/10/2016 10:33

I had to set aside an entire day when I lived in France to fill out about a gazillion forms in triplicate. ID cards in Europe state your date and place of birth.
These are all example ones (not real)

Confusing isn't it.

I was told categorically on here France would NEVER ask my place of birth. Confused Maybe that poster lived under the radar and in the murky shadows for reasons perhaps best kept to themselves.

The surprise is this wasnt all done when people came into the country.

This is getting books in order - getting a grip on what the true population is and planning accordingly.

For over a decade we have had a free for all and we have no idea how many people are here. We have been on the back foot over NHS, schools and all the rest. This is responsible sensible approach to running a country and I lived somewhere else and they had to ask me - x years down the line - " oh by the way, are you a guest in this country> or were you born here" I would be pretty bloody shocked to be honest. I would wonder what kind of country I was living in.

justgivemeamo · 08/10/2016 10:35

Shhh, don't make sensible points! Shout xenophobia, Nazi or terrifying. It shows your a really good person who cares

This a million.

ethelb · 08/10/2016 10:39

Is this happening in private schools?

Pisssssedofff · 08/10/2016 10:40

I doubt it

sprinklesofweirdness · 08/10/2016 10:40

Work in a primary school and had seen some of the senior staff doing this with every pupil, one pupil asked why? She simply said the government do this every year and just want to know it's not us that ask this, but I never remember them doing that before Confused

whatishistory · 08/10/2016 10:42

This hasn't happened at my DDs school---we're in Scotland.

JassyRadlett · 08/10/2016 10:50

It is also a language thing as eal pupils get extra funding up to a certain amount of years. Schools need every penny they can get. It also impacts on the school profile for exams etc.

No hang on, others on this thread have said that language is recorded separately, and can't be predicted by nationality or place of birth anyway. Let's not conflate issues.

I'm uncomfortable in general about data being collected without a clear explanation of how it will be used, to be frank. And whether it is linked to Brexit or not, as a foreigner it makes me uncomfortable when the state decides it needs data on my children without explaining for what purposes it will be used (and the limits put on how it will be used). And regardless of its original purpose, given the current rhetoric you can't blame people for being worried about how it might be used in the future.

ethelb · 08/10/2016 10:52

So if you are rich or Scottish your children don't have to have their privacy invaded?

The issue with this to me is they are starting with the children. The Government tried this once before, do you remember when the New Labour government tried to introduce ID cards and were going to make it a prerequisite for applying for student finance.

Again, you were fine if you were rich (and to a degree Scottish!).

Gyderlily · 08/10/2016 10:55

I have never been asked on any form what language my foreign born children speak!

pieceofpurplesky · 08/10/2016 11:28

Jassy this week I have filled in the information on all of our foreign born children about their competency in language. It is all linked. One leads to another.

JassyRadlett · 08/10/2016 12:13

Jassy this week I have filled in the information on all of our foreign born children about their competency in language. It is all linked. One leads to another.

It really doesn't. It doesn't need to.

Children born in Britain with British citizenship may have English as an additional language. Children born abroad may have English as a first language.

I have no issues with the collection of data on whether children speak English as a first language. I have a real issue with the collection of data unnecessarily. I haven't seen any compelling arguments about why the nationality and birth data leads to better educational outcomes. And you certainly don't need it to record language status.

user1471545174 · 08/10/2016 12:22

Please can BabyGanoush and SlottedSpoon from page 10 post AGAIN as the message is still not getting through.

Thanks.

JassyRadlett · 08/10/2016 12:51

The UK is the only country where I have lived where you carry no id and have access to healthcare and education with no questions asked

Interesting, as that's not my experience at all, as immigrant. To get an NHS number I had to provide ID and information to prove my right to access the service. To get an NI number it was ID, proof of right to work, and an interview. To access maternity healthcare I also had to provide evidence of my right to live here and access services. When I enrolled my son in school I had to provide his birth certificate. I had no problem with any of those, because that seems a reasonable level of information to expect to access those services.

I have no problem with showing ID or providing this information when there's a clear purpose. This data isn't being used to allow access to a service. I'm buggered if I can see what its purpose is.

mumindoghouse · 08/10/2016 12:57

Too much data being collected which has potential for misuse. Personally I find it scary

titchy · 08/10/2016 12:59

The UK currently has a huge problem with under achievement in white working class boys. As a result there are lots of interventions in a wide variety of arenas to try and address this issue.

But if we didn't collect data on ethnicity, deprivation and educational outcomes no one would even know this was a problem.

I have yet to see groups of non-white kids rounded up as a result of decades of collecting ethnicity data, which I'd argue is far more sensitive than country of birth.

titchy · 08/10/2016 12:59

Mumindog - did you fill in the census?

roundaboutthetown · 08/10/2016 13:03

titchy - yes, but what use, educationally, is knowing the place of someone's birth, that isn't more usefully answered with questions on language(s) spoken at home and ethnic origin? Why is knowing where someone was born particularly useful? Are they hoping to identify where refugees are being schooled?

OurBlanche · 08/10/2016 13:05

This hasn't happened at my DDs school---we're in Scotland.

Ye gods! From the link: Scotland collects pupil-level statistics annually using only the main ethnic codes and no separate language codes. The pupil-level data relevant to EAL pupils can be found here.

Here is www.gov.scot/Publications/2013/12/4199/16

"These data are used primarily in equalities monitoring."

The answer is out there... if only you'd look!

OurBlanche · 08/10/2016 13:07

Are they hoping to identify where refugees are being schooled? Yes, quite possibly.

Why?

Real world answer: so they can work out what money/support might be needed, to ensure there is specific and appropriate provision of all sorts of amenities.

MN answer: so they can round them up and deport them all!

pieceofpurplesky · 08/10/2016 13:18

Jessy do you teach EAL children? I do and it is important that they are identified as some may need additional help.
As for the census it had been done as long as I have been teaching - only the wording has changed and peoples' paranoia.

JassyRadlett · 08/10/2016 13:43

No I don't, and can you point me to where I suggested that I disagreed with collecting EAL data? Please don't fabricate or misrepresent - what I said was 'I have no issues with the collection of data on whether children speak English as a first language'.

Regardless of how long the school census has been running, any additional data collected should have a reason behind it. 'We're curious' is a shit reason.

pieceofpurplesky · 08/10/2016 13:49

But it is not extra information - it has always been collected. This data forms all kinds of educational studies - see the post earlier. It is just a case that parents are being asked to reconfirm this information just as they check changed email address, ways of travelling to school, who lives in the home with the child - it is just like the census we fill in every ten years.

roundaboutthetown · 08/10/2016 14:01

Rubbish - I get the same form every year to confirm my information hasn't changed. Except this year they have added two questions that have never been on the form before. It is therefore legitimate to wonder why where my child was born is now of interest, as well as their ethnic origin and home language.

scaryteacher · 08/10/2016 14:02

Jassy There is no legal requirement in the UK to carry ID, unlike in Belgium, where you are legally obliged to have your Belgian ID card on you at all times. If you needed A&E in the UK, they don't ask for ID before they treat you, unlike in Belgium, as the latter want to know so they can bill you.

JassyRadlett · 08/10/2016 14:02

That seems at odds with everything I've read, which is that nationality and place of birth are new on the census this year. Is that not correct? This definitely reports it as a change.

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