To think a test for downs that is nearly 100% accurate will not result in more terminations

[PlayOnWurtz]

I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sally Philips at the moment and her insistence testing for downs syndrome is a negative thing and that living with someone with downs syndrome is a wholly positive experience.

Whatever happened to choice? Who is she to lay the guilt trip on people? Why is it seen as shameful to say "I would not be able to raise a person with significant health and learning disabilities" and seen as a negative decision made on a whim rather than a decision made with consideration and thought and heartache?

I live in a poor London Borough there is no social care.

Health care is spraodic to say the least.

This is sadly the norm for many families

I dont care if the new test leads to an increase in terminations. I am 100% in favour of a safe, non invasive test.
Healthy babies have been miscarried as a result of the amnio test. That needs to stop.

Every child a wanted child.

As said upthread - people are not the same as fetuses. Uncomfortable statement but that is the definition of abortion.

No-one has the right to insist that someone must have a disabled child. Or that they must abort it. Only one person can decide.

I didnt watch the programme and will now avoid anything phillips is in until she admits to being anti-choice.

Peppa, I think what play is saying is that there just are not the available resources to give to disabled children and adults. IME children's care is well resourced compared to that of adults. Carers are poorly paid and badly treated.

Just realised last post a bit contradictory. Great to advocate for Downs but the healthy happy people on the programme aren't the whole story. It's a broad spectrum disorder. The health problems associated with it can be terminal. There is no way of knowing at 12 weeks.

I admire Katie Price for her honesty and candour. Id much rather she had done a programme like this.

• i do realise Harvey does not have DS. But Katie would be more than qualified as the mother of a disabled son.

I hate the thought that babies are aborted because they have Down Syndrome
I haven't quite read the entire thread yet but I wanted to comment on this.

I cannot understand this statement surely if you hate babies being aborted because they have DS then you must also hate babies being aborted for any reason at all?

KP wouldn't be middle class enough.

I may be incorrect, but I imagine life with an additional needs child is a bit smoother when you have a comfortable lifestyle and can afford domestic help, enabling you to focus on your baby

I was just coming on to say this, its hard, its great a celeb wants to promote and be positive and she is right in that its seen as a very negative thing when Downs test comes up. People with downs S children do not feel this however its of course easier to cope if you have more resources, of course it is.

I am 100% pro choice. I support this test.

We do not love out children less or value them less then other dc. My god I have done things I never imagined I could do for my boys.

8 years I've been desling with HCPs, SW & special schools. I literally battle, rage, put all my energy in to accessing any help i can get them.
Fighting the education system with no legal help as tbe Legal Aid was removed.

Finding out Law to quote to DCT to get them to assess the boys for restpite.

Researching programmes to nsnage my older ds ADHD.

It never stops. They are 8 & 11. I know I've just lived the easiest bit of being their parent...

How do you feel about pro-choice termination based on sex?

YY Jessica. I take it this programme was on the BBC.

I am very uncomfortable with what Sally Philips is promoting. I will give this some more thought before I post further.

nolongersurprised Wed 05-Oct-16 22:32:15

excellent post.
I have to agree.

Although society in the UK at least is getting better and better and better at looking after people with disabilties, It has come on a long long way even in my life time.

But I am afraid - people with DS - are very vulnerable and I personally know we cannot protect them when they go and live in the community as we should - as a society, for this reason, it worries me greatly.

I think it's none of my business cd

Sorry for typos... been up since 5am

YANBU. Good for her for raising her son well but frankly other people's choices are none of her business and her experience won't always mirror that of other mums.

When I say I am pro-choice, and this may be controversial, I mean I am pro women choosing an abortion for any reason. Saying "I'm pro-choice but don't think people should be able to abort for X Y and Z" is not really that pro-choice. Furthermore if women had to give a reason for their choice to terminate, we just create jurisdiction to police women's bodies based on a random criteria of judgement.

Oh, for a like button for dobby.

pro choice termination based on sex

Why should you know a reason to terminate? Not your business.

A pregnant woman should have all the latest possible access to tests and knowledge in her pregnancy snd if she decides to terminate at any stage it's her business alone.

Logically, I think YABU - a safer, more accurate scan will result in more people having the test which will surely result in a higher incidence of abortion.

But YANBU to think that taking a test and aborting a baby are both personal decisions that nobody but the woman carrying the baby can make.

I can understand where Phillips is coming from though. She is not an impartial observer (obviously) and a decision to abort a planned and/or wanted pregnancy due to a positive DS result is (despite being an understandable and valid decision for many) going to feel like a slap in the face for a mother with a child who has the condition. It's not rational but then the protective mother instinct isn't, is it. I can easily imagine how it translates in her mind into 'my son is less worthy of being alive than he would be if he didn't have DS.'

I have experienced similar irrational feelings over my DD2 who is now 9. She is the result of a rape. Most people assume that a pregnancy from rape will and should be aborted. Almost nobody supported me in my decision to keep my daughter. Abortion was not an option for me but I support the right of all women to choose their own options. However, supporting that right doesn't stop that sick feeling every time I hear statements like 'I wouldn't have an abortion - except if I'd been raped of course' or 'obviously if it's a case of rape then abortion is fine' because irrationally I then feel that they are saying that my daughter has less right to be here and is worth less than the child of a wanted pregnancy.

I can't judge either Phillips, other women who have children with DS or women who choose to abort babies with DS.

What happened to the BBC's obligation to show balance in their reporting? One hour of polemic from a woman whose experience is very far removed from the majority of people who have children with Downs. She has a high functioning son, a flexible career, a wealthy spouse and on tap support and yet she feels she is in a position to proselytise?

I don't hold out much hope for similar air time to the alternative view?

Her argument is nonsense anyway. It is simply denying people a safe test to make an informed choice.

Surely it's better to have this test available than not? Pro choice. Totally.

Hadley Freemans tweets about this make some excellent points.