To expect a seat on the train/tube with obvious disability?

[Polarbearflavour]

I have a temporary obvious disability (using a crutch) and have to commute to work every day (London) AIBU for expecting to be offered a seat? I don't like to ask in case people become aggressive as I have read that that happens to ladies with the 'baby on board' badges occasionally. Also, people may have hidden disabilities and not be able to stand.

Transport for London is currently trialing this badge and card tfl.gov.uk/campaign/please-offer-me-a-seat which I think is a great idea for those of us with hidden disabilities too! Do you think this is a good idea and would you apply for one or happily offer somebody wearing one your seat?

I had to wear a huge removable cast on one leg for six weeks once, and I was gobsmacked by the sight of people queuing up not to notice me. YANBU

Yes, I think that;s a really good idea. I had a baby on board badge when pg and people did usually offer me a seat.

I'm not sure how effective the badge would be.

When I commuted on the tube, I used two waking sticks and would stand in front of a person sitting in one of the seats supposedly provided for the disabled etc, hanging on grimly and hoping the person seated would get up but instead they tended to open their newspapers even wider to completely obliterate me from view. Even when the train lurched and on a couple of occasions I ended up temporarily on their lap, they still didn't shift.

Ideally we'd just normalise asking/being asked - whilst I perfectly understand individual's reluctance to do so (I've done it myself), it is sad as a society that we are like this.

Badges are good to a degree but it does set up a false delineation that badge = needs a seat, no badge = no need for a seat. On any given day there are people who will be in need of a seat due to temporarily feeling unwell or in pain, who should feel comfortable asking and not need a badge for validation.

The other thing about not asking is that the person occupying the seat doesn't have a chance to say 'no' - I'm in early pregnancy and have been feeling very unwell at times and have not offered up my seat to more heavily pregnant women. If they had asked me I'd have politely said I was unable to give up my seat, but instead I am left looking like I am just wilfully ignoring someone who appears To have a greater need.

I don't however really agree with the 'you can't expect me to look up from my phone' argument - if you're sat in a priority seat and don't need it I think you have a responsibility to look up at stops to check if anyone obviously needs a seat and give other people who might have a hidden need the opportunity to ask.

I've never had a bad response to "excuse me, are you disabled? I really need to sit down" - sometimes someone looks clueless, other people get up, and then the first person figures out what I meant and tries to apologise.

There was a woman who commuted on my route who had an excellent line in shouting, "Please can I sit down before I throw up everywhere and faint onto the floor, as dealing with that would DELAY YOUR JOURNEY!!!" Gave me confidence when I was pregnant, though ironically I got offered seats before I knew I was as I looked so grey, and later couldn't use them as I needed support belts to walk so was unable to sit with them on.

YANBU for expecting a seat while on crutches - just don't be like the arsehole on crutches on the 43 who gave out yards to me for daring to sit in a priority seat at 35 weeks pregnant (with an absolutely enormous bump) back in February!

I was only offered a seat once when I needed one in all my years. I had food poisoning and was leaving work early - and thought I was going to die on the tube. I must've looked grim as a heavily pregnant woman sprang up and pushed me into her seat.

I was shoved away from a seat on a bus by a healthy enough looking woman the week I gave birth (I was huge and you really couldn't miss the bump). I wasn't even going to sit down - I was just moving down the aisle.

Luckily I was feeling great so just had a fit if the giggles as other commuters did goldfish impressions.

I have a metal pelvis with screws in my sacroiliac joint so it's an invisible disability. Standing for ages really hurts
I have a bus pass and once on a completely full bus I sat in the only seat which was a disabled seat
I had a vile old man shouting at me that it was a disabled seat and I was disgusting for taking it.
I sat with tears welling until I got the balls to tell him why
He didn't apologise at all

TBH I think YABU to expect people to notice a badge and offer. People are busy, they are tired and thinking of a million and one other things, they don't notice things like what people are wearing. I know I wouldn't. Of all the things I am thinking of during my morning or evening commute "What does that person's badge say?" is the least of them. I barely look at my fellow commuters. However if you were to address me and ask me if you could sit down because your back hurt or whatever, I would be the first to get up for you.

Think back over your last commute. What was everyone wearing? How many people had trolleys? How many people had badges or pins of any description? Did you really notice?

A wheelchair or crutches are obvious and draw attention. A little blue badge isn't. I wore dozens of sodding little badges in my teens and 20s with funny catchlines on them. I doubt many people actually read them or even really registered them.

If you need a seat just ask for one. The vast majority of people are arseholes yes but not such arseholes that no one in the vicinity would let you sit down if you asked them.

I think one of the reasons for the 'baby on board' pregnancy badges is that it makes people feel less awkward about offering a seat, particularly around the 'is-she-or-isn't-she?' quandary that people aren't always confident they can judge what is a baby bump and what isn't.

Similarly the blue badges might help people feel more confident about offering and that they're not making a negative judgement on someone else's physical capability.

They're not a panacea though - would still be better if people felt less awkward about asking for something they have every right to have!

I think you need to ask politely for a seat rather than expect people to notice. And address the request to everyone, rather than target one person... asking 'excuse me are you disabled' as a pp suggested is unfair as there may be other reasons the person needs the seat. Why should you have to declare early pregnancy/invisible disability/feeling faint etc to justify keeping your seat?

I had SPD for 6 months after giving birth and needed a seat on the train. I tried to book my seat in advance or travelled at quiet times. Trains are notorious for overcrowding and seats aren't guaranteed.

If you're on a long journey without a seat booking, I think it's U to expect someone to give up a seat they've booked.

As for people noticing and offering, most people are busy reading/typing/playing with phones. You need to ask.

Interesting, I always thought it was best to ask one person specifically instead of asking out loud "could someone give me a seat please?" because this could lead to an awkward blank when noone wants to stand and they all think someone else will.
I get the point about putting someone one the spot - who might indeed have a reason for needing the seat.

Back to the OP, I think the badge is a really good idea. But if no seats are offered I believe you should ask for one. I never had someone say no as long as it is asked nicely.

I think you can simply ask 'do you need this seat?' rather than 'are you disabled?'

There was a woman who commuted on my route who had an excellent line in shouting, "Please can I sit down before I throw up everywhere and faint onto the floor, as dealing with that would DELAY YOUR JOURNEY!!!"

See, I'd just think she's a bit of a dick. "Excuse me, I'm pregnant and not feeling well, could someone give me a seat please?" would have me jumping out of my seat for her. Her line above would make me think 'what a twerp' and be less inclined to be helpful.

I know what you mean about the awkward blank stare. But IME a few people respond while the rest ignore. When I had SPD (yet not obviously pregnant) I asked for a seat a couple of times and 2 or 3 people jumped up. I asked very politely and probably sounded a bit desperate.

Asking one person puts them in an awkward position if they need to say no. They can say 'sorry I need the seat' but it's embarrassing to be singled out and have to explain why you're saying no.

I'm happy to give up my seat on short journeys, but if I've booked a seat for a long journey I'd be reluctant to give up my reserved seat. Standing for hours is tiring even if you have no health problems. My back and knees ache after an hour of standing in the aisle and I often get dizzy.

I agree with others that the badge is a great idea, but in general, if people are not offering then you should ask. People are often wrapped up in their own world, and might not notice that someone in front of them is struggling. I think also a lot of people don't want to offend by making someone think they have been offered a seat because they look fat/old.

On the tube once, all seats taken, but only one man strap-hanging a few seats along. A heavily pregnant woman got on and I stood up and motioned for her to come and take my seat. Before she could reach me the man scuttled along and plonked himself in my seat. The woman and I gawped at him, then at each other, and two women further along shouted at him that the seat was for the pregnant lady. He tried to brass neck it out but we were all too much for him and he got up and stood by the door and got off at the next stop.

I once had something similar reg - full train, a man got up to let me sit down - the lady sitting next to him immediately scootched over and took the empty seat. As I (very obviously heavily pregnant) climbed over her to get into the seat she'd vacated she said 'ooh no you don't want to sit on that seat it's wet' . Another nice man kindly gave me his Metro to put under my bum!

I am a regular tube commuter and the thing is most people are so engrossed in their 'phones/electronic devices or asleep if you are suffering you should ask, especially if the priority seat is being used.
I often have to use a stick and never have any problems if people see you are struggling.

A lovely lady on a very crowded train today saw me and very kindly made space for me and asked somebody to move for me. There are some very nice people out there. I'm guessing most people are perfectly nice and reasonable but in their own worlds/have iPod in/ reading a book and just don't notice until they are politely asked.

I would certainly never demand someone moved or make assumptions that they are able to stand but I do think out of an entire carriage most people could stand!

Oh, god, yes. Thankfully rarely need to go to London. Trying to stand on a moving tube whilst stick-dependent is a 'mare. Especially given that you've already had to struggle through the escalators and stairs, with people pushing and jostling as you try to not fall. I dread to think how people on crutches cope. I've probably only been on the tube about 10 times when visibly disabled, but didn't get a seat once. And really quite intimidating to ask, when people act like making acting eye contact is committing assault.