To expect a seat on the train/tube with obvious disability?

[Polarbearflavour]

I have a temporary obvious disability (using a crutch) and have to commute to work every day (London) AIBU for expecting to be offered a seat? I don't like to ask in case people become aggressive as I have read that that happens to ladies with the 'baby on board' badges occasionally. Also, people may have hidden disabilities and not be able to stand.

Transport for London is currently trialing this badge and card tfl.gov.uk/campaign/please-offer-me-a-seat which I think is a great idea for those of us with hidden disabilities too! Do you think this is a good idea and would you apply for one or happily offer somebody wearing one your seat?

I wouldn't notice the badge, I zone out on the train i find it quite hypnotic. Ild notice someone asking for a seat though and would move

I do have a more uplifting story for this thread- the very kind man who offered me a seat on a packed Jubilee Line train because I was panicking about falling down and being crowded in. Helped me tolerate the journey a lot more then if I had been standing.

I was very fortunate though as my disability isn't a visible one, so you wouldn't know I was struggling until it all got too much!

Yanbu at all. Badges are a good idea.

You will get the odd arsehole who makes you upset- I had a group ignore me when I felt faint and sore in my second trimester until a man asked them if they needed priority seating because hed help find me a seat somewhere else otherwise - and some may zone out accidentally or on purpose but if you don't get offered I would just ask everyone if 'someone would let me sit down'. And touch your badge so they can see why.

You need to ask I am afraid. I always give my seat up if I see someone who needs it but often I am engrossed in the metro or my blackberry or staring out the window and suddenly 3 stops later I see someone standing in front of me and wonder how long they have been there. I am not intentionally rude and I like to think most commuters aren't, so just ask. Some will refuse but nice people in hearing distance will always get up.

I think the badge is a good idea and wish we had available. I am visually impaired and carry a white stick if alone and particularly difficult journey, unfortunately I also have mobility issues and a walking stick. As you can appreciate I cannot manage both! So I have both and use the most suitable given the situation. I had reserved seats on a train recently and had my white stick, the train was so full I couldn't even walk down the aisle to attempt to find my seat. No one offered me a seat. Did they think because i was (just) blind I would be ok standing for a 20min journey? Would my walking stick, showing a different mobility issue have got me a seat? I found it very nerve wracking and wedged myself in the aisle so I wouldn't get too disorientated or fall over. When the train slowed at the main station all the seated and standing wanted to disembark quickly, grabbing bags, putting phones and things away. I stood firm because I need the train to be stopped completely before I am safe moving. You can imagine the tuts, mutters and everything else I was getting for causing such a delay. If someone had given me a seat however, I would have stayed tucked in no disruption to anyone, calmly and safely waiting until everyone else had got off before I moved. People can be rude and inconsiderate. Sorry I ranted abit!

Agree you need to ask. I also always got a seat when pregnant (and didn't bother to get a badge). Often someone would notice and offer straight away, if not I'd aks for the seat at the end which is reserved for those that need it.

Always got it, only occasional huffiness which I ignored.

Frankly I think it is both rude and silly NOT to ask if you need it. But during my first pregnancy I wasn't on the tube during rush hour much. Now I do and I use my commute to read, so emails, the shopping list etc. I'm often totally absorbed in watch I'm doing and don't stop to check at every stop whether anyone getting on needs my seat. It's unreasonable to expect everyone to do that. If you need a seat, just ask for the reserved one.

Using crutches for 6 weeks a couple of years ago was an absolute eye opener. I'd always assumed that everyone gave up their seats without being asked (not that I'm so virtuous, it was just drummed into me as a child) and was completely shocked by how often I had to ask - at least daily on my commute and often once per type of transport thanks London commuting It was also humbling just how bloody difficult and embarrassing it was to ask, and I'm not a shy person. Since then I've always been so careful to be aware of my surroundings and offer seats to anyone with a visible disability before they ask. I can't imagine how demoralising it must be to deal with that long term.

I think the badges are a great idea but I wonder whether people who are too absorbed or to rude to stand already will take notice I'd really value them to know when people have an invisible disability, though. I think the baby on board ones are great to identify when someone isn't yet noticeably/obviously pregnant and these might be effective in the same way. I'd definitely give my seat to someone wearing one.

I also get people with prams expecting me to hop out of my wheelchair so they don't have to fold it up.

I've also had this happen to me.

I'd offer you a seat if i saw it - i'd offer one if i saw you were on crutches/pregnant - but like others here I probably wouldn't notice. I don't stare at everyone coming in the train to check for badges/small bumps etc
Just ask !

I've seen people shout and get really aggressive at people sitting down when they haven't been offered a seat (including me) when the sitters simply hadn't noticed - i think this is rude.

Asking and being refused or ignored isn't a pleasant experience either and unfortunately it does happen. I talk from experience. I would let a busy train or bus go (if I wasn't on a time check due to a hospital appointment) rather than risk standing for the journey and be at the front of the queue for the next one.

I think the key with asking is not to direct it to any particular person (as they may have a reason for needing the seat or just be an asshole). I'd go with a general shout of "Would anyone offer me a seat please? It's hard for me to stand" or something like that.

I agree with the above. Especially on the morning commute, a lot of people don't notice anyone as they're busy with the metro, phone or asleep. You need to be more assertive

YABU. Travelling on the tube is not a pleasant experience, so most people lose themselves in their phone, the Metro while listening to music etc and don't look around the carriage.

If you want a seat and no one sees you and offers one, just politely ask. I have never seen someone who has asked for a seat not have at least three people jump up and offer them one.

I purposely avoid the seats that are for less abled people, but it disgusts me when people who are perfectly able bodied sit in them and then purposely ignore others who are in need of that seat. I know there are hidden disabilities (I have no arch in my foot and standing for long periods is agony) but I will bet that 80% of the people in those seats who ignore those in need are not disabled in any way. I have had situations when I got up to offer my seat and have another person sit there even though I clearly offered it to someone else. I am glad of the baby on board badges and the new disability ones simply because it means I don't have to guess if they are pregnant or if they have a disability I cannot see.

YANBU but good luck!

I had to commute with an obvious disability (broken arm in plaster & sling) which affected my balance & mobility. Did I ever get offered a set? Not on your nelly.

People with prams on buses were the worst, Tube a close second.

I probably wouldn't notice a badge, but then I'm not in the habit of staring at other people's chests. If I'm on a train then I'll be head down reading a book or my phone. If you want my seat, then just ask me and I'll get up. But I'm not scanning everyone getting on the train on the off chance they have a badge and making an assessment about who does or doesn't need a seat.

The problem with badges is they don't make a noise. When I'm in the tube I read my kindle / paper - if someone asked I would always always give up me seat as I would if I noticed but I don't look up at every stop.

I used to ask anyone who looked like they might want a seat if they wanted mine, but was told a few times that I had offended people (i.e. a person who looked old enough to be offered a seat was upset when I offered mine). For that reason I am more reluctant nowadays to offer. I think badges would take away that internal panic of offending and upsetting people.

They seem a great idea and I hope it's rolled out.

I have a serious spinal condition but is total invisible unless you see me walking. I take a lot of morphine and other painkillers every day so that I can have some semblance of a normal life and as I am also reasonably young, slim and wear nice clothes and make-up I apparently don't really tick most people's boxes of what a disabled person should look like.

It's actually quite dangerous for me to stand on public transport - not just increased pain, but if it stopped suddenly I could be in a lot of trouble and a lot of extra pain.

I try not to use the priority seats as I've had several occasions when I've been shouted at for sitting in a disabled seat when I "don't need it". Even when I've explained that I do, I've had people scoff and tell me I'm a liar. I did find getting the bottle of oramorph out of my bag and asking why I would have this if I wasn't actually got an apology, but I shouldn't have to do that.

My husband asks for seats for me, but I'm too shy and too wary of a) people accusing me of lying or b) asking someone else with an invisible disability to move so I never do. Just try and wedge myself into a corner instead. I do ask for my mother who is very severely disabled with MS and don't have any qualms about it.

I've considered buying a stick just as an indicator even though I can get around without one. Interesting to know that even with one people still ignore you.

It is appalling how people with disabilities are treated especially if it isn't super obvious - I have friends with blue badges who are accused of conning the system. One friend was told that she couldn't be disabled because 'look at you, you're wearing lipstick'! She hadn't even got as far as getting out of the car to retrieve her crutches from the back seat!

YADNBU and I really feel for you.

The advice to politely ask generally is a good one (and has been tried) the success rate is mixed, it depends on the audience as with most things. My point on waiting for the next bus/train/tram if time permits is because it can be difficult to ask and face the reaction of others, the expectation from reasonable well mannered people is just ask and someone will offer. Not always. Can you imagine your frame of mind if that happened to you (balanced on top of disability/mobility issues you are struggling with that day?) so sadly at times its best avoided.

99.9% of people would offer a seat if asked, IMO.

The general misconception is that Londoners are a bunch of selfish shits who would gladly see a pregnant or disabled traveller sit on the floor. The truth is that people on the tube don't spend the journey looking around them in case there is someone who might need a seat. We are mostly half asleep or engrossed in reading something.

I'd quite like a badge but needs good recognition. My dd is in an sn buggy. Some people see it and know what it is but others don't. On Sunday ended up kicking woman and buggy off bus. I had tried to get on, she was v adamant about having been first. When I tried to explain she cut me off "I'm first". So then bus driver evicted her for us. I felt bad as it took her a while to get it and when penny dropped I think we embarrassed her or maybe she never got it and he just intimidated her. Neither is great.

There isn't really no reason to not tap someone on the shoulder and ask for a seat

I haven't heard of anyone ever having an aggressive reaction. A few people making snarky comments perhaps, but you can guarantee another passenger will then offer a seat.

The main problem is that the British sense of awkwardness and not wanting to offend in case someone isn't disabled or pregnant will nearly always trump the willingness to help so without a badge, people don't want to risk causing offence.

Interesting to know that even with one people still ignore you.

But most people are just engrossed in their own lives. Nearly everyone I see on a train is reading, fiddling with their phones or even have their eyes closed dozing. Not checking every other person on the train for a possible badge.

I really feel for all of you who've ad such miserable experiences on public transport... DH has a condition which means he can go from being fine to being dizzy very quickly. He became unwell the other day and had to use the Tube but was struggling. I was appalled to hear he had to stand but he pointed out that he was in cycling gear and that no-one would believe it if he said he needed a seat. I'd like to think the badges will help and applaud the scheme, but sadly I suspect that selfishness and thoughtlessness will mean people will continue to have to stand when they need to sit...