Racism

[manandbeast]

I am white British woman married to a Jewish man. We have a son who is technically not Jewish but of course has cultural influences from his dad's side of the family. No issues - it's all great.

Last night I was with my dad and his wife (not my mum). Who started complaining about how Jewish people are basically all over the BBC.

I reminded her that my husband and son are Jewish - my dad said well your son is technically not Jewish. And left it at that.

I just feel a bit weird about it. Like there's some kind of underlying feeling towards my husband and son.

The other day at work my colleague described someone who had been a bit mean with s charity donation as a fucking Jew.

I'm really upset by this and really shocked. Worse were the comments from my family.

I'm not being U, am I?

Because a black or Asian person cannot hide their race. I don't feel its fair to put religion in the same category. Majority of Jewish people are white and you would not think they were any different to a white Christian person unless they told you they were Jewish.

Please educate yourself.

Plenty of people 'look' Jewish (or rather, have certain physical characteristics that are widely believed to be/associated with stereotypical ideas about Jews), and many of these people suffer street abuse simply for 'looking' Jewish. In addition some Jews have to wear items publicly signalling themselves as Jewish, and thus become targets for abuse.

There are light-skinned black and mixed ethnicity people who do not 'look' black. There are black people with blond hair and blue eyes!

There is a massive ongoing debate about the concept of "passing" (within various different contexts, eg straight-passing, white-passing) and there are many different strands within this debate. E.g. the concept of 'passing privilege' which may allow people to escape abuse and persecution. The relationship between passing and colourism within the black experience. The relationship between passing and 'one drop' or hypodescent rules. And the profound sense of dislocation and being cut off from your tribe and your own background that some mixed-race or light-skinned black people can experience. 'Passing' is not an unknown issue within the Jewish community, in fact it's been discussed at length for decades. But to reduce anti-antisemitism to "Jews have passing privilege" is extraordinarily ignorant and simplistic.

There is also racism within some parts of Judaism and Israel, unfortunately, which is either ignored and over-simplified by the rest of the world. Eg the treatment of Ethiopian Jews within Israel, or the treatment of the indigenous Israeli Bedouins and their unrecognised villages.

Point is any issue involving race is incredibly complicated and multi-stranded. Any attempt to simplify it is inherently facile.

Oh, I should have known HerFace would be on here frothing the conversation. Behave, GF.

Your colleague needs reporting to hr. Their words were very wrong and they could get disciplined for their prejudices. Yanbu.

You should raise with your dad too and challenge his words.

Asian/Indian Jews can experience racism. White Jews experience bigotry and prejudice. It's not quite the same.

Totally, I do think it's bad form to use information from other threads against posters who have posted there. Having said that, Her face is talking absolute shite.

The colleague's comment was way out of line, I'd definitely report that. Is your Dad Irish background by any chance? A lot of people have been badly stung in the past by the 'terrorist' labels used to justify terrible social/military decisions and, rightly or wrongly, think the same forces are at work with a lot of what is going on now in terms of 'creating a threat' to justify war at home and abroad.

Last night I was with my dad and his wife (not my mum). Who started complaining about how Jewish people are basically all over the BBC.

It's true though, they are. Hugely disproportionately represented across the media as a whole. So what?

But that's just an observation. It's not untrue or unkind to say it, depending on what the agenda is. Were they just observing? Or actually complaining with a racist agenda?

The other day at work my colleague described someone who had been a bit mean with s charity donation as a fucking Jew.

On the other hand, that is racist, lazy stereotyping and downright unacceptable.

I wish people could separate the actions of extremists in Israel from Judaism. But this is the absolute essence of prejudice. Because some of a group (Israeli settlers, Muslim extremists, whomever) are arseholes, it means that the whole of a group is.

I agree totally.

I am of those people who makes a distinction between zionists and jews. Lots of wonderful people are Jewish and lots of zionists are Christian or atheist. Zionism is a philosophy that adults adopt (you don't get baby zionists) whereas Jewishness is something people are born into. Unfortunately Zionists don't like you making that distinction.

Mum, it's very true there are lots of people who think the Jews uniquely must never have a homeland and who call upon the destruction of the Jewish state and the eradication of the Jewish people and they don't consider themselves at all anti-Semitic.

Totally, I do think it's bad form to use information from other threads against posters who have posted there.

It's not 'information from other threads', it's the fact that the poster has already shown themselves to be a lying goady fucker. Just thought I'd point it out before people waste their time trying to explain a complex issue to someone who isn't remotely interested.

"You will always find anti-semitism on the right, but sadly it's becoming more and more common to find people on the left indulging in it" This is simply not true, there is an ongoing witchhunt by the right wing to demonise Corbyn and anyone connected with him. These allegations have been reported more and more over the last year by the right wing media but they are mostly untrue. Nobody denies that anti-Semitism is a problem in modern day Britain much like other forms of racism post Brexit but to suggest it is increasing on the left of politics is to fall for right wing propaganda. thanetwatch.wordpress.com/2016/10/03/jackie-walker-speaking-uncut/

You have posted a link to the prestigious 'view from the isle of thanet blog'?!

Yes, labour does have a problem with anti-Semitism at the moment.

Several Labour councillors have (rightfully) been suspended for saying variously Hitler was great, Isis are zionists, Israelis should be put on trains and relocated to America. Etc. Etc.

It is not 'right wing propoganda' to call out this racism among left wingers. I actually find it really creepy that people are defending it or insisting it doesn't happen.

Sorry, what is wrong with saying "Isis are zionists"?

Zionism is a political philosophy, not a religion and much less a race.

People claim that Isis are Muslims without getting into trouble.

Yes dear, Isis are actually agents of the Israel govt.

Oh you're one of those. I should have guessed.

Ah, the conflation of Zionism/Israel with anti-Semitism rears its ugly head again.

What do you mean Bobster?

A. Hitler was great.
B. Israelis should be put on trains and transported to America.
c. ISIS are Zionist.

You actually think anyone who has issues with this is a right-wing propagandist?
I think you've just proved the point that the Left has an anti-semitism problem.

Jackie Walker has been called unpleasant even by her Momentum comrades. I personally think that she's a vile anti-Semite and that the Labour Party would be well rid of her.
Weird how one small country in the Middle East gets all the criticism, eh. It's never the Russians, or anyone else.

Oh you are one of those Helmetbymidnight

Zionists are cowards who hid behind the Jews to throw stones.

Does your dad make a habit of saying things like that, or was it just a moment of his mouth over-riding his brain? (Which still isn't ok, but is a bit less shocking IMO than if he makes a habit of "digging" at the fact your DH is Jewish!)

My paternal grandmother makes those kind of comments often with regards to Polish people ("Them Poles coming here for our jobs and benefits" kind of comments).....apparently forgetting that my mum is Polish, both my sister and I were born in Poland, and identify very strongly with our Polish heritage

OP, I don't know what you can do about the racists around you, but you could talk to your son about how many wrong-minded people there are who want to hate broad swathes of people, instead of trying to see the good in everyone or at least giving everyone a chance to see who they are.

Blacks, Muslims, Jews, Asians, Poles, etc. etc. are all on the receiving end of these types of narrow-minded comments and the least we can do is make sure that our children grow up to understand how wrong and stupid this is.

atenco, you - who can't believe there is anything wrong in arguing mindlessly that Isis are zionists - are trying to give op advice on 'wrong minded people who just want to hate'.

Incredible. Just look at yourself.

Op, there are lot of stupid racist twats about. Your ds will deal with them I'm sure.

Yes, Helmetbymidnight, that is the case. I thoroughly hate Zionism and I thoroughly hate ISIS, though frankly have never seen this argument put across. I do know that there is nothing Islamic about them. They break every law of Islam and they mostly attack Muslims.

Zionism has very little to do with Judaism. George Bush was a Zionist and a lot of the more unpleasant evangelical Christians are. Many, many Jews are very publicly not Zionists.

This thread is about antisemitic comments made by some ignorant people.

Yet we have some complete idiots on here who insist on jumping in with complete garbage about Israel which I won't repeat as it's not worth repeating, it's such utter nonsense.

I think like this proves a point re the conflation between antisemitism and Israel. Disgusting.

This, the stuff happening with the labour party, the growth in antisemitism, the turning of heads the other way...it makes me as a jew want to leave the uk. I'm 3rd generation. My grandparents etc fought in ww2 in the bravest way for this country alongside so many others
..proudly. I never thought I'd live to see these times.

It's heartbreaking and frightening.

All I can say is thank g-d we do have Israel to escape to.

Don't you just love the way atenco - who asks what is wrong with calling Isis zionists - is treating us to her definitions of what Judaism is and which versions she approves of- on a thread about racism!

Stunning isn't it. I'd like to reassure op this sort of ignorant non-reasoning is very rare but sadly it isn't.