To ask any Muslim mumsnetters

[DollyBarton]

Whether you are ok with dogs in the house? I'm not sure if it's one of the more normal or extreme beliefs for Muslim people but I read it is a problem and had arranged for my dog to be away when our Muslim friends stay this weekend. It's my DH's friend and girlfriend we've never met so I can't guess how many of the rules particularly she observes. My DH told me not to be so ridiculous and kept the dog here. I just think that because he thinks he knows his friend from college and observed him being fairly relaxed in those days he could be mistaken about how he and his girlfriend are about their beliefs now. They have said they are happy to share a room, I know they don't drink but DH has been in a pub with the friend in the past. DH was surprised they only eat halal....I just feel we should make our home as Muslim friendly as possible, they are our guests and it's not hard to remove the dog, put away all alcohol, remove all pork from the fridge and maybe be a bit careful about welcome hugs and kisses. Is the dog an issue in general or is it something many Muslim people don't observe? I am nervous they will feel deeply uncomfortable but too polite to say.

I wouldn't bother removing pork and alcohol from the house either, again as they are sleeping together they are obviously not massively observant and assuming this is in the UK I am sure they are more than used to eating/socialising in places where there may be the potential for cross contamination in kitchens anyway. I've known Muslims who eat meat (halal obviously) at home, but when out in the UK with non-Muslim people they eat vegetarian rather than expect Halal, just because it's easier, otherwise the restaurants they can access are more limited. They may go into a pub with mates but not drink, as opposed to not going into a pub at all.

On the other hand in Muslim countries I have known Muslim people politely decline invitations to eat at the homes of non Muslims because that home is a place where there is likely to be dogs/alcohol/pork/free mixing of couples at the dinner table and they do not feel they can take part in that.

Have read the thread and not really seen any 'arsehole' replies! Did I miss something?

I thought the op was lovely and I am sure the visit will be enjoyed by all.

I have learned things in this thread, I knew about the pork issue but not the dogs.

What I find so reassuring on this thread is that there are no typical anyone's.

Fuzzy yes you are right dogs do need the company.

Would you mind me asking what constitutes ritually clean? Is that washing before praying and to do with spiritual cleansing, a sort of mini baptism to address Allah?

My muslim cleaner who doesn't choose to cover up by the way, leaves the grill of its daily bacon fat remains without any problems.

On cooking issues lots of the houses we looked at when buying this had two kitchens due to the Jewish requirements to keep meat and milk separate

In my view these rules from the jewish and muslim religions are not really from God (who does not exist) but from sensible rules to keep healthy in deserts. You don't want sand up your penis. You don't want sea food or pork to go off. They were wise rules thousands of years ago for desert dwellers but a bit silly to continue with today which is why increasingly jews and muslims are giving those rules up.

If you look at houses on Rightmove that are in traditionally orthodox Jewish enclaves you can often see two sinks in the kitchen.

In my view these rules from the jewish and muslim religions are not really from God (who does not exist) but from sensible rules to keep healthy in deserts. You don't want sand up your penis. You don't want sea food or pork to go off. They were wise rules thousands of years ago for desert dwellers but a bit silly to continue with today which is why increasingly jews and muslims are giving those rules up.

I completely agree and in fat most religious 'rules' can be seen as nothing more than rules for controlling and maintaining social and family order that probably made good sense at the time, even if it has absolutely no relevance now.

OP you sound lovely and very tolerant.

If they don't want the dog too close I'm sure they'll let you know. But you wouldn't be expected to send him anywhere.

I personally knew a friend's family had a dog and they wanted me to stay overnight. So I declined as I knew I didn't want to be in their home and make them feel uncomfortable by asking for the dog not to be near us.

I completely agree and in fat most religious 'rules' can be seen as nothing more than rules for controlling and maintaining social and family order that probably made good sense at the time

^^ Indeed and good sense to those wishing to control them!

Addict Hope you manage to get that poor dog removed from that family!! That's an awful, disgusting way to keep an animal and completely violates Islamic teachings on kindness to animals!

Real housewives, I wasn't aware of the dog thing either which is why I asked for a quick response on mumsnet in case it was just a really obscure one. I had done a quick Google to remind myself of halal and general practices and that one was listed everywhere too.

Guests arrived. The gf adores dogs and is delighted, our friend is clearly uncomfortable (but extremely polite and trying his best not to flinch) so it turns out it would have been easier for me too to have the dog over at our friends. She's a cocker and we've 3 small kids so it's very hard to keep her joyous, friendly, licky self away. Every time someone opens a door she's in like a shot but his gf is good at running interference too.

Anyway, it's fab to see our friend after so long and it's not hard to stick to soft drinks and vegetarian for the weekend. (He would be fine with us eating pork and drinking in front of them but there is simply no need so why do it). I love cooking and food so having people with dietary requirements over is fun for me. I found some great recipes having vegan friends and a celiac to stay.

I'm not 'desperate' or tripping over myself but I do love our home and for people to enjoy staying with us.

The last couple of posts are about to derail this thread into the rights and wrongs of the Muslim religion. Please don't. Start your own thread if you must.

Meadow Well it's not going my way so far but I am not giving up easily, let me tell you. If I could I would just walk in and take the poor thing but it's not that simple for various reasons.

Realhouse, ritually clean, is not being dirty (so bathed, properly washed), having clean clothes on and then we also need to perform ablution before praying.

If I've been in contact with a dog I'd probably change clothes I was wearing before praying if it was a slobbery dog or if there's a likelihood it had got dog saliva on it.

I'm from the Indian subcontinent and we don't traditionally keep pets. I think a lot of the fear of animals stems from that pets not being the norm. Although my cousins did keep chickens and goats (goats are awful pets).

What always strikes me as odd on MN, is the utter hatred for religion and the disdain and outright rudeness towards religion and those who believe in God. There's absolutely no need to make fun or be rude about people's belief in God.

And to the pp who said 'we really like dos saliva' sarcastic face, I've seen people kiss dogs on the nose and allow dogs to lick their faces.
I wouldn't do that, not just as a Muslim, I don't like it personally. But clearly there are people who don't mind.

Muslims often keep working dogs. It's not disallowed.

Another total fabrication by some scholars falsely attributed to Prophet Mohammed PBUH.
Not a single verse in the Quran where what is Haram (prohibited) in Islam is stated , is an inclusion of dogs.
As a matter of fact dogs are permissable especially for guarding and hunting.
Wahabi " mad" belief which should be ignored.

And to the pp who said 'we really like dos saliva' sarcastic face, I've seen people kiss dogs on the nose and allow dogs to lick their faces.
I wouldn't do that, not just as a Muslim, I don't like it personally. But clearly there are people who don't mind

Exactly! And some Muslims will also keep and love dogs and give them a good snog too.

Thank you for illustrating my point its down to people. Not putting yourself in a box saying - I am a muslim so....I am a person and Like dogs saliva, i am a Muslim and I love dogs saliva.

Dogs saliva whoever thought a thread on it!

Interesting frogmore

Best to have none of all the silly beliefs! Its clearly hard to differentiate. Imagine adoring dogs but never having one for religious reasons that turned out to be bunkum?

I'm not Muslim but just wanted to say you sound a very thoughtful person! Maybe a tad over thinking things though! Hope you all have a fab weekend x

But how do people get from my saying there is no God to saying on mumsnet there is utter disdain for religious people? I have no disdain for them at all. I think they are wrong and I would like to convince them there is no God and that most religions seek to control and keep women down or in their place but I definitely do not hate people who believe in God.

In relation to complex rules one thing Jesus (if he/she existed) did was say you have thousands of totally pointless petty rules and regulations - let us get back down to basics, tear up all these rule books about foods and the like and just say be kind to others, love one another. That was pretty sensible.

You're sending your dog away because your Muslim friends are coming?.

What if other friends come over and don't like children? You send your kids away too?.

If they know you. They know you have a dog. They'll deal with it.

I don't need to be convinced thank you very much for your concern though. I shall keep you in my dua's and pray that Allah ( who does exist btw) can soften your heart so that you can be rescued from wondering blindly.

Is that ok?

Because that's the equivalent of what's going on here.

Patronisation and rudeness to anyone with religious beliefs, whilst we are suppose to just accept it. Fuck that shit.
Think I might start preaching now instead of giving polite replies.

Op so glad it went well

fuzzy thankyou for that I find religious customs fascinating.

I agree there's no need to be rude or dismissive to any religion or belief that is tolerant and peaceful, I think having a real belief would be comferting and wonderful but I personally can't. Each to own

The stuff that people do in the name of religion is hard to understand if you are not religious. That does not equate to hatred! We just don't get it.

Bye, it is lovely if you pray for us mumsnet atheists. I have no problems with that at all. We all need to be kind to each other b ut when somethihng is right - like there is no God - then we also need freedom to state that just as you in the UK are free to say there is a God. One reasons mulims like to be here - because we allow this freedom of speech and on the whole most people here are kind and good to each other. Most religions' principal rules to be good neighbours, help others etc etc have very good principles at their heart. It tends to be the distortion by men of original basic good rules which is the fault.

Eg when men rushed out and raped women who weren't hidden away in the desert tents a rule that women don't go out witbout men looking after them or keep their bodies covered was very sensible indeed. Not so nowadays thankfully.

Unfortunately far too many nations sadly some Muslim ones are not so keen on freedom of speech.

And I don't wonder blinding. I know there is no God. There is no wondering there. There is absolute certainty and rather than blindness there are no scales on my eyes and I hope to ensure everyone can also have those scales lifted from their eyes too.

Actually claccusong us of having an imaginary friend/Sky fairy whatever other derogatory term which is commonly used on MN in general and has been used on this thread is rude, derogatory, bullying, nasty and wholly unnecessary.

Nobody is prosthelysing here. To you your beliefs and to us ours.

I don't need or want to conform to your way of thinking. I'm content with my faith and my relationship with God.

I actually think OP is a very thoughtful host, and I hope she and her family have a lovely weekend.

Princess yes, if someone's belief meant that my children's presence caused them great discomfort when they visited, of course I'd put them in the shed till the visitors were gone.

Some people say frankly rediculous things for the sake of indignation.

What always strikes me as odd on MN, is the utter hatred for religion

Perhaps those people are simply responding to some of the things done in God's name?