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To have put it in the bin

68 replies

Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 09:34

Please don't flame me as I'm feeling pretty shit atm, constructive advice welcome!

Struggling lately, I've got an 8 year old, a toddler and a dh working long hours, I'm finding the domestic drudgery challenging.

8 year olds room was a complete and utter tip. Every few months his dad and I go in and clean it with him from top to bottom, declutter, tidy, show him where to put things. Then I just ask him to keep on top of it day to day, I tell him exactly what to do and break it all down for him.

He leaves all the loss of his felt tip pens all over the floor, hides dirty clothes and socks down the side of the bed and in toy boxes, leaves games jumbled up and trashed, hides wet towels in the wardrobe, you name it it's there.

All he cares about is the games console and is generally getting cheeky. So I've banned it until further notice.

At the weekend once again we went in and sorted it all out, got rid of loads, believe me it should be really easy for him to keep tidy. He promised he'd put things away. I said if I found felts all over the floor with lids off I'd bin them.

This morning what do I find? Felt all over the floor with kids off. So I did, I binned them.

Of course he was upset and I feel awful but I'm so fed up of it, I want him to learn to appreciate things and look after things more.

It's not just felts it's all the games from the console and Nintendo ds that I find dumped everywhere.

OP posts:
Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 12:00

That's probably what I need to do.

It's almost like I need to be in there with him while he does it.

Last night he got home from school and straight into football kit to play football outside, then later we went out for dinner so I got him to change into something else, it was all a bit rushed, things like that is how it builds up I guess.

OP posts:
Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 12:01

I'll look into it luckystars he is challenging a lot lately.

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3luckystars · 29/09/2016 12:02

It's such good book, I hope you enjoy it! Good luck x

TheSparrowhawk · 29/09/2016 12:03

I'm not going to flame you and I totally sympathise with how annoyed you are, but I don't agree with taking away someone else's possessions. He owns those pens and taking them and throwing them away is crossing a boundary IMO.

Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 12:03

You're not the author are you? Grin

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3luckystars · 29/09/2016 12:09

Here is a bit from the book. ......

Understanding Your Strong-Willed Child

Four-year-old Corey is a challenge. He begins his typical day by refusing to wear the clothes his mother picks out, then dawdles for the next twenty minutes while she prods and pleads with him to put them on. When he arrives at the breakfast table, he turns up his nose and complains that he doesn’t like what’s offered. This is not a battle I want to fight, his mother says to herself as she prepares Corey his own special meal. She tells her husband that she worries about Corey’s nutrition, but what she really worries about is the tantrum Corey will throw if he doesn’t get what he wants. Her husband thinks she’s too soft on Corey and so do her two daughters. “It’s not fair!” they complain. “He always gets his own way.” By the time Corey makes it out the door in the morning, his mother is ready for a nap. But this is only the beginning. Round two begins in the afternoon when Corey returns from preschool. Sometimes Corey’s mother wonders how long she can take it.

Six-year-old Kristal is sweet and cooperative one moment, angry and defiant the next. Little things set her off—unexpected changes, departures from routine, or simply things not working out her way. Tantrums are not uncommon. “Living with Kristal is like riding on a roller coaster,” says her mother. “It’s exhausting!” Kristal’s parents alternate between punishing and giving in, depending upon how worn down they feel; but nothing seems to make any difference. They wonder if Kristal’s behavior is normal and question whether they did something to cause her to behave this way.

Nine-year-old Alex has a short fuse and often acts before he thinks. When things don’t go his way at school or in the neighborhood, Alex gets loud, calls names, threatens, and sometimes hits other kids. Alex has been suspended from school three times this year for being disrespectful to teachers and fighting on the playground. It’s only December. “It’s too bad they don’t spank kids at school anymore,” Alex’s father laments. “When Alex acts like a brat at home, we give him an earful, then we paddle him. He has to learn. We’ve threatened to take away his TV privileges for the rest of the year if he gets suspended again.”

Lynn, age twelve, is destined to be a great trial lawyer. She’s bright, intense, and very persistent. Lynn will argue with anyone if she thinks there’s a chance of getting things to work out her way, and she’s willing to use drama, rudeness, and disrespect when she believes it will help her win her case. “I never would have imagined talking to adults the way she talks to us,” Lynn’s father complains. “We reason with her every way we know, but everything turns into an argument.”

Do any of these children sound familiar? If your child resembles one of these, you’re not alone. I see more than a hundred children each year whom parents and teachers describe as challenging, difficult, spirited, stubborn, hell-raising, a pistol, or just plain impossible. Although no single term adequately describes all, or even most, of the children I see, the one that comes closest is “strong-willed.” These are normal children with extreme behavior who are hard to raise and difficult to discipline.

Strong-willed children are not part of some conspiracy to make life difficult for others. They just do what strong-willed children do. They test harder and more often, resist longer, protest louder, use more drama, and carry things further than most of us would ever imagine. They’re movers and shakers, powerful kids who bring out strong reactions in others.

Teachers and principals know them as the 10 to 15 percent who cause 90 percent of school discipline problems. Parents know them as their big challenge. I know them affectionately as “my kids” because I spend a lot of my time with them, both at work and at home. Yes, I’m the proud parent of a strong-willed son. My youngest son is a delight, but he’s also a workout, and he’s not the least bit impressed by the fact that I write books on this subject or that I’m supposed to know what to do. At home, I get no breaks or professional immunity. He pushes hard against my rules and authority. At times, I’ve wondered whether his behavior is normal.

Strong-willed children are not part of some conspiracy to make life difficult for others. They just do what strong-willed children do. They test.

Do you sometimes question whether your child’s behavior is normal? Perhaps you worry that you’ve done something to cause your child to behave this way. If so, you’ll be relieved to know that the problem, in most cases, is not parents. Most are doing the best they can with the discipline tools they have. The problem is not the child, either. Most strong-willed children are just being themselves. The real problem is a bad match between the child’s temperament and the parents’ discipline methods. The parents’ tools are not well suited for the job. The predictable result—conflict and power struggles.

When parents arrive at my office looking for help in dealing with their strong-willed child, one of my first tasks is to assist them in understanding their child’s temperament. Then we examine how their discipline tools match up with their child’s temperament and discuss the predictable conflicts and friction points that develop around a bad match. That’s what we’re going to do in this chapter. A new perspective awaits you. You’re not the problem, but you are a big part of the solution. Improving the match is well within your control.

Who Is This Strong-Willed Child?

My youngest son, Ian, is a great force in our family and a great source of pride and joy. He’s bright, creative, sensitive, and very determined. Sometimes, I think he’s more determined to train his parents than we are to train him. He keeps us on our toes. If we are unclear, inconsistent, or indecisive when we ask him to do something, Ian lets us know. He holds out for a clearer signal.

Like most strong-willed children, Ian understands the “bottom line,” and he knows how to get there. He just pushes hard until he finds it, and when he does, he pushes a little more to see whether it holds up. If it does, he stops pushing, at least for a while, and accepts the boundary. But Ian pushes a lot before he gets there. It’s wearing! My older son, Scott, usually cooperates for the asking without all the pushing.

How would you react if you asked two children to cooperate in the same respectful manner and got two consistently different responses? Would you become upset? Would you question whether something is wrong?

The persistent testing that is so characteristic of strong-willed children is also what drives most parents crazy. Why would anyone do this? I’d ask myself. Is this normal? I would never push anyone as hard as Ian pushes me.

Does your child push hard against your rules and authority? Has he or she done so from an early age? Do you react in extreme ways and question whether your child is normal? Join the club. Now it’s time to get better acquainted with your child. Following are some basic facts about strong-willed children that will help you better understand your child and your reactions to his or her behavior.

The persistent testing that is so characteristic of strong-willed children is also what drives most parents crazy.

• Strong-willed children are normal. You’ve probably worried about whether your child is normal when his teacher or a well-intended relative pointed out that his behavior seems extreme. They’re right, but extreme does not mean abnormal. Most strong-willed children are normal with well-defined temperament traits. They’re not brain damaged, emotionally disturbed, or defective. Most have no diagnosable problems at all, though some do. In addition, no rule says you can only have one thing going on in your life at a time. Some strong-willed children also have learning disabilities, hyperactivity, and other special needs, but a strong will does not mean they are abnormal.

• Strong-willed children are not all alike. Each strong-willed child is a special individual with his or her own unique temperament. No two behave in exactly the same way. Sure, they all test parents and behave in extreme ways, but they don’t all test in the same way or to the same degree. Some are easier. Others are more difficult. Some are almost impossible.

• Strong-willed children are hard to understand. Our individual temperament shapes the way we think, learn, and behave. When others think and behave as we do, we can readily identify with them and understand their experience. When others think, learn, and behave very differently from us, however, it is not easy to understand them or to identify with their behavior. Why would anyone do that? we ask ourselves. The behavior makes no sense from our perspective. Strong-willed children are hard to understand for exactly this reason. As you learn about your child’s temperament and how that temperament shapes the way your child behaves, behavior that once seemed confusing should begin to make sense.

When others think, learn, and behave very differently from us, it is not easy to understand them or to identify with their behavior.

• Strong-willed children require a lot of guidance and discipline. Of course, this statement sounds obvious: Children who test frequently require frequent discipline. Yet when you accept this statement as a fact of life rather than a source of annoyance, your attitude and perspective changes. Mine did. I stopped feeling so angry and resentful when my son tested me and developed patience I didn’t believe was possible. I realized that his job was to test, and my job was to guide him in the right direction. Those are the hands each of us were dealt. My new perspective didn’t change his behavior, but it sure made my life a lot easier. I stopped taking it personally.

• Strong-willed children do not respond to discipline methods that seem to work with other children. Why do children respond so differently to the same request? One cooperates, the other resists. Is the problem the resistant child? Or the request? Most parents feel confused when their best guidance efforts work with one child but not with another. The issue is less confusing when we consider the individual temperaments involved. Compliant children will cooperate with most discipline approaches, even ineffective ones, because their underlying desire is to cooperate. They have a different learning style than their strong-willed counterparts. Compliant children permit parents a wide margin for ineffectiveness. Strong-willed children, on the other hand, do not respond to ineffective discipline. They require clear, firm, and consistent guidance. Ineffective discipline is a fast lane to power struggles with a strong-willed child.

Ineffective discipline is a fast lane to power struggles with a strong-willed child.

• Strong-willed children learn differently than their peers. Strong-willed children do much of their learning “the hard way.” That is, they often need to experience the consequences of their own choices and behavior before they can learn the lesson we’re trying to teach. It’s not enough just to announce that kicking the soccer ball in the house is not okay. Strong-willed children need to experience having the ball taken away for a while each time they decide to test the rule and kick the ball anyway. They may need to repeat this drill many times before they accept the rule as mandatory. Their behavior is not malicious, but can be very frustrating and confusing because it is so unlike that of compliant children who cooperate the first time they’re asked. Parents must learn to accept that “hard-way learning” is good learning for strong-willed children.

• Strong-willed children bring out extreme reactions in others. How do you feel when your child challenges your rules and authority? Angry? Frustrated? Confused? Threatened? Intimidated? Embarrassed? Guilty? Inadequate? Discouraged? Exhausted? All of the above? These are all normal reactions to extreme behavior. Strong-willed children often place strain on a marriage, cause sibling conflicts, and create other problems within the family.

3luckystars · 29/09/2016 12:12

No I am deffo not the author!! I have read it though and need to read it again! I have recommendedit to loads of people who found it fantastic too. It's about getting the situation sorted without shaming or embarrassing the child.

I took that excerpt from Amazon. But the library should have a copy.
Sorry for going on about it, I will shut up now I promise!

cozietoesie · 29/09/2016 12:36

My father was ex-Navy and once or twice a month would declare 'Captain's Rounds' for my brothers' room. (Anyone who is seagoing will understand the demands of such an endeavour.) He didn't quite wear white gloves but by Gosh he was thorough. Everything had to be clean and dust-free, in alphabetical or size order if possible, and skirting boards and door-tops were checked for dust. Hoover marks on the carpet had to be in a precise pattern - that sort of thing.

We didn't see my brothers for hours beforehand. Grin If Dad found anything, they'd have 'lost'.

The training stuck in later years.

(My room was kept fairly tidy so I was exempt. Grin)

Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 12:37

Thanks 3luckystars I was only joking! It does sound good, I have been meaning to order that book 'how to talk so children will listen', I may order both.

To be honest I just feel run down. I get terrible pms with severe headaches and hot flushes, sensitivity to noise.

The toddler has now had a run of colds, teething and diarrhoea.

Ds is far from the worst child, it all just a bit of a mixture of games console obsession, challenging me and me not being fully on top of it.

OP posts:
WhisperingWind · 29/09/2016 12:38

I think you were justified and I'm a soft touch. Only way he'll learn.

Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 12:43

Thesparrowhawk I used to work with social workers, admin and minute taking. I clearly remember discussions and throwing or threatening to bin toy was definitely not a suitable method, although most of the social workers would confess to having threatened it themselves.

I suppose from my point of view I've bought everything for my ds, he's my child and I expect him to respect the things I've paid for.

I've tried shutting the door and forgetting about the mess but I can't live like that. It's no use when we come to play a game or drawing that everything is lost or ruined.

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TheSparrowhawk · 29/09/2016 12:48

You may have bought them, but they're his things. If someone buys something for you, are you ok with them controlling how you use that thing?

It's absolutely fine to insist on a certain level of tidiness for his room (although for both of your stress levels that needs to be pretty basic). In terms of his possessions, if when he comes to play a game or draw and everything is lost or ruined, then that's a natural consequence of his own behaviour. It is not acceptable for one person to throw away another person's belongings.

Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 12:55

Hmm, I suppose the trouble is he needs some of those things.

I appreciate the point about natural consequences, but eventually I'll end up needing to replace those things one way or another.

Throwing it away I'm hoping it's a shock tactic for him to realise I mean it.

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Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 13:02

Yes if someone bought me something, especially something I'd asked for and wanted, I've no doubt the giver would be unhappy if I didn't look after it. Ok so they couldn't come and take it off me, but I doubt they'd buy me anything again.

Can you realistically apply natural consequences to children?

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RhiWrites · 29/09/2016 13:09

Have you tried involving him. "DS what do you think is a fair way to make sure your room is tidy?" He might surprise you.

If not I'd go for, no playing football / console until room is tidy.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 29/09/2016 13:20

In an ideal world TheSparrowhawk he'd respect/value his possessions enough to take care of them. Have you see the tv programmes about people who hoard things? Even though they are adults, left to their own devices their home living just becomes chaotic and quite frankly dangerous in terms of fire/trip hazard as well as attracting insects/vermin. Sometimes they can see the problem and just need a hand to plough through it all, whilst others will literally not see it even though rooms are full to the ceiling! So I wouldn't rely on him realising and acting when it gets bad enough - what if that never happens!

Lighthouseturquoise · 29/09/2016 13:25

Oh I've really tried rhi. I've asked that very question, he just says he'll keep it tidy from now on, he doesn't have any ideas, he doesn't want anything changed or he gets upset.

We went through it all at the weekend and agreed what could go in the loft, he was really happy with his clean tidy room.

I ask him why he's hidden his dirty socks in the toyboxes and so on he's just shrugs and laughs.

Honestly the amount of times dh has gone in there with him on a Saturday morning to help him and all he gets is ds throwing a strop and shouting.

OP posts:
RhiWrites · 29/09/2016 18:33

Poor you, it's so hard to get a naturally messy person to tidy. But do stick with it. Teenagers can be way worse so it'll be good to fix it now.

How about ten minutes every day? Doing it by little bits before he goes out to play?

Or a pristine room earns an extra hour console time a week?

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