To think they just aren't normal?

[Theydontsleep]

Help! I am just feeling so frustrated and am hoping for some insight / advice or just plain old reassurance that we will get through this! I've got 18 month old twins. Everything is great with them except the sleeping. I still breastfeed and they can only go to sleep through feeding. I have never been able to put them down for naps, I have to sit feeding them for however long they nap. At night I feed them off to sleep and within 10 mins they are awake again. So I feed again and they go back to sleep. A good night they wake 4 times and I feed off to sleep each time. Bad night, which is more than good, they wake 10 times plus. They will only go back to sleep if they are fed. We don't let them cry and that's not an option for us but is there anything else we can try? Will it get better?! We co sleep, they eat really well, have plenty to do each day and there are no other issues whatsoever. They are in a good bedtime routine and have no health conditions. I just am so desperate for them to sleep without waking every hour. Are they normal for non cry it out 18 month olds? Thanks for reading!

I'm sorry but no 18 month old needs to be feeding 10 times a night, it's ridiculous: sorry but it is. There's a massive difference between a small baby crying because they need food and don't understand what's going on and 18 month olds crying because they are cross.

I don't know if this will be helpful as it's not from personal experience, but my mother's experience with me as a toddler. I didn't wake up 10 times a night, but I would still wake up once or twice for a night feed when I was about 18 months old and she was getting ready to go back to work. I didn't need to be fed, obviously, but as a baby feeding me was the surefire way she had to get me to fall asleep and then it became a habit.

She knew she needed to break me of the habit but also wasn't happy to just let me cry it out alone. She settled on letting me cry it out with her present. I'd wake up, expect milk, not get any, throw a tantrum (during which she'd hold me, hug me, reassure me, but not feed me) and eventually I'd exhaust myself and go to sleep. Apparently it was hell for a week or two and then it was fine.

I'm not sure how that'd translate to twins (could you and your partner each take one?) or if that's too close to crying it out for you to be comfortable with? But as I understand it a lot of the concerns about crying it out centre on the child feeling abandoned, which they may not feel if you're present and providing attention and physical comfort.

Either way, my mum was a brilliant mum. I'm sure you are too.

It is completely normal for children this age to wake regularly and completely normal for them to want to feed back to sleep (at least it has been for all my children, all my sisters' children, most of my friend's children...)

I guess your issue is being aggravated by the fact there are two of them! I'm in the middle of night weaning my 21mo old (third child) as I'm pregnant with no 4. I've done it really, really slowly.

I started by trying to comfort by cuddling and stroking his hair if he woke. If he got upset that was fine, I jut fed him. But surprisingly it did actually work sometimes. I wore a thick top so he had limited access and tried to create some sleeping space between us so he couldn't smell milk all the time and couldn't root around easily in his sleep.

Now my husband has taken him in the spare room with him to co-sleep until 11pm each night. There has been no real crying (a tiny little bit of whimpering. Which is all my hormones can take before I take him back in with me) and we will increase it by an hour or so each week until he's spending all night with my husband. We've done this with all the kids and the transfer to their own bed once they've got used to the fact my husband can't breastfeed has been pretty quick. Granted, it might take you a while but I've always felt better knowing that I'm aiming for a solution and I am clear about what that will entail.

I'd do one twin at a time if I were you!

Blimey. Crying is normal, OP. 18 month olds waking and needing a feed 10 times a night is not.

They must be exhausted too, waking that often? They and you would surely feel better if you were all sleeping uninterrupted? Sleep training honestly only takes about 3 days and they can't remember it, it doesn't scar them in any way. Do it for them and for yourself.

I didn't need to sleep train my first son at all, he slept through from a couple of months old. So my second was a shock. And I had to be held down in another room to stop me going to him the first night. But 3 nights later, when I put him in his cot and he smiled at me, turned over and went to sleep, I knew I had done the right thing.

My ds stopped night feeding when he was 2 as I had an op so Dh went in with him as I couldn't, it totally broke the cycle with no tears, ds didn't associate Dh with feeding and he was able to shush him back to sleep as I wasn't there.

Could your Dh book a week off and you sleep in another room?

Jesus there are some shitty comments on here.

You haven't created this problem, you haven't made a rod for your own back. It is completely normal for breastfed babies and toddlers to feed through the night, even if just for comfort.

As for the pp who asked what's wrong with letting them cry (or words to that effect)... look up studies into cortisol levels. Leaving a child to cry without the comfort they've been used to for 18 months is cruel. Do you ever wake in the night after a bad dream and reach to your partner for a cuddle or just to know that they're there? Even as adults we need that nighttime comfort sometimes.

OP, I would second the Dr Jay Gordon method, I have heard very good things. We tried it with my daughter and did a modified version (though she was much younger than your twins, about 13 months). Did it as I'm pregnant and was getting a bit desperate. It did work, sort of, though I think the thing that's made the most difference is moving her to her own room. I still feed her to sleep (and back to sleep if she wakes) but it's generally just one night waking. Though I will admit she never woke as much as yours.

Op- my twins were exactly the same at 18 months. Cutting incisors and the 18 month developmental growth spurt were utter hell for us.

Dr Jay Gordon/No cry sleep solution are worth reading. And I found natural mamas forum helpful and I signed up to an American ap twin list (I have no intension of ap, it just suited my twins sleep needs).

Are your twins ID I found a couple of studies about how much more sensitive ID twins are to pain and my twins really struggled with teeth pain. And silent reflux (still do as big kids) and CMPA.

In the end, after those incisors and that growth spurt I put them in cots with a mattress for me in between them and stayed with them and held hands and shhhddd etc but refused to feed until 'morning' which was allways around 4 am. .... (still is, but they have asd etc and still don't sleep much)

They did cry, but we're never left alone. And it was hard for me to hear but it was possible I think because I could lye down in comfort and not worry about getting back to 'bed'. I was close enough to cuddle them lots but the cot meant they could just roll over and latch and it gave a clear boundarie that nursing in bed was no longer an option. (Although I nursed and slept in the big bed for the 4 am marathon bf).

They seemed to like having their own room, and we still keep a mattress between their low beds to settle them to sleep. Black out blind, white noise, my fluffy dressing gowns for blankets and non spill water cups in cots were used. They bf til three ish so night weaning didn't effect that.

I wasn't bf them to sleep at 18 months though, around 1 ish oh took over settling them to sleep while I slept down stairs, ear plugs in. So they already could fall asleep without bf, just not resettle them self's until we night weaned. Oh said they cried a lot, but it only took a few nights and again they were never left alone, allways cuddled and comforted just not by bf.

I hope some of this helps you some or gives you ideas. Modeling healthy self care is important also and you will know when you can't take anymore. Best of luck.

Well done you for feeding twins so long.
Someone else suggested seeking specific advice from twins groups, or is there a health visitor who has experience? One of my friends with twins changed to a health visitor who had had triplets and found her really helpful.

I weaned a younger toddler off breastfeeds at night (I'd already day-weaned as she was in nursery) when I stepped my hours back up, had a long commute and had to start staying away for work and do odd shifts. My parents took my older child for a "sleepover" and DH was in charge at home at night with the little one. He worked out a system that was essentially controlled crying but actually in reality once we accepted that some crying would be involved it was surprisingly little. I'd coslept till around 7 months when we figured out we were all disturbing each other, and then I'd be up a lot feeding, but it was short comfort feeds. We know have a toddler who is obviously better rested, once I got used to not being woken so much I felt like a different person.

You must be on your knees. Children need well-rested parents, or at least to be getting more sleep than you are. Are you working? Either way it must be really difficult. I can say with confidence that my kids who have both been sleep trained in this way are happy, well attached and we can genuinely tell that they are happier when they are more rested.

My youngest never took a dummy, despite me trying. She has soft toys that we hear her babbling to if we turn the monitor on. The other thing to do when you move them is to not have a monitor on as you will surely hear loud cries so you're not responding to the littlest of sounds. I know I was certainly doing this when I coslept and before we took the plunge and I left DH to it for a few days.
But with twins not sure how the leaving him to it would translate - is there a grandma or someone else who can share it with him?

And we found once nights were improved she was much better at settling herself to sleep for naps. This is a baby who has been walked for miles in a pram for naps previously!

This is not advice, but telling my experience to think about. I finally stopped breastfeeding my twins at 14m, after thinking I was too tired to make the effort for months.
It was amazing! I instantly felt so much better and more energetic. Breastfeeding is EXHAUSTING. Worse than the the sleep deprivation IMO, and that's torture.
Anyway, once I stopped bf, it was pretty easy to get them sleeping through - mostly because I was better able to hold the line when they woke, not just take the line of least resistance.
Deepest sympathy though - the exhaustion is the worst part of twin parenting.
Ps they're 3 now and absolutely brilliant fun.
Best of luck.

What allfed said, once I was forced to take the plunge and stop feeding overnight I wished I had done it much earlier - but I was too tired to make that change!!

I think you need to weigh up the benefits of a full night's sleep (for them as well as for you) against some crying.

Very broken sleep is not great for your twins' development or their mood and energy during the day. And having a knackered parent isn't great for them either. It could be downright dangerous if, for example, you drive anywhere and your tiredness affects your driving.

I decided to do sleep training after I was so tired I nearly tripped and dropped DD down the stairs. At that point I decided the downsides of the broken sleep outweighed the downsides of sleep training.

Please try to see it that way. There are other times when you accept them crying surely? For example if they want to do something dangerous and you stop them, they may cry because they're not getting what they want. But you stop them anyway because a bit of crying is the less bad option. This is just the same.

I'm not saying any of this in a blaming way by the way, I can totally see how you've got to where you are and it's been for the best of reasons.

The only caveat I would say is - 18 months is really not a good time for sleep training. It's peak clingy time and sleep regression time. Perhaps keep going another month or two and you may find it easier. Are they teething?

I found the hormones from bf twins gave me more energy not less. I needed my sleep back but continuing to bf two during the day worked wonders for my energy levels and ability to cope. But op you have to go with what will work for you.

There were definitely times my twins tumimes would rumble in the night at 18 months, but mostly that would just be a night or two of growth spurts, or because they were off solids because of teething. They did adapt to no night feeds once we night weaned 19 months. And if they were off solids because of teeth I just offered lots of extra bf late afternoon/early evening to keep them going over night.

I only had singletons but they were pretty similar to yours at 18 months. They both started sleeping through on their own in the end, without intervention. DD was around two and a half, DS was three. So you aren't doing them terrible harm if you carry on as you are.

You are probably doing yourself some harm, though. The tiredness of those days was horrible. So if there is stuff you are happy to try, then go for it. I've heard good things about the Sarah Ockwell-Smith book. There was also a local sleep consultant who used very gentle methods and was happy to work with parents who didn't want to leave their babies to cry. It might be worth asking around locally to see if there is anyone like that near you.

I also wanted to second what someone else said - your twins will also presumably cry about other things that they don't want to do (assuming they are crying at night as they are cross and their way of getting back to sleep is to have a little breastfeed).....if they cry when their nappy is being changed or their teeth and needing cleaned presumably you just get on with that as that is meeting a basic need?

And I cannot emphasise enough how much my own wellbeing improved once I got more sleep, definitely making day to day parenting easier and more enjoyable.

I honestly don't know how you have got yourself into this situation - I have twins and for me and everyone else I know with twins, you have to be stricter with them and yourself or no one sleeps.

Stop offering the breast. Just stop. Give them sippy cups with warmed milk instead. They don't need your breast milk anymore, they are doing it for comfort.

Do controlled crying to get them to sleep - it might take a week but it will almost certainly work. You may have to do one at a time if you don't have rooms to split them up in.

How you're not dead I don't know

You've made a rod for your own back in afraid. These are the results of feeding to sleep +cosleeping. I'm not being mean, I've done both of these things, but once you've reached your limit with it, you need to take steps to wean them off really. I've never done the cry it out method, but the gentle withdrawal (maybe gentler) type. So just start with what you're already doing, laying down with them etc. but no breastfeeding. Once they can cope with that, might take a week or two if you are staunchly consistent. You then move forward to laying down with them to settle, then withdrawing while they are still aware but tired. On it goes until they are doing whatever it is you want. Ultimately, if you give them what they want at whatever time they want it, they will be demanding and unable to self settle or self soothe. Nobody's saying be mean, I'm very affectionate with my kids and respond to their needs of course, but in the bloody day time or if it's night time then obviously if they genuinely need me. I think it's too much to be with them all day and all night and being woken through the night etc. And having seen four year old cosleeping dreadful twins (not mine) that screech for attention and don't let their mum have a seconds peace, I wouldn't say the BF and cosleeping method is going to guarantee you a pair of little darlings. The book lies

I know it seems old to introduce dummies but if they are just sucking for comfort rather than a feed I would be really tempted to try and meet the sucking need in a way that allows you to get some sleep!

I know nothing about twins but I did bf my son to sleep in the early months, but at around a year we moved to a milk in a cup and bedtime stories routine. This started with milk in a cup and dh doing stories then me giving a very quick bf to sleep but soon ds wasn't taking that bf as his tummy was v full and he was very dozy. We used the 'ncss' book so that when i did bf in the night i always unlatched him just before he nodded off. I must say i was strict about no sleeping with my nipple in his mouth because i just got so claustrophobic. We also moved him to his room around this time. If i remember rightly the ncss book asks you to work out what YOU want to happen as a result of your actions - do you want them in their own room? do you want your dp to be able to put them down? do you want to stop feeding to sleep? night wean? what actually matters to you and what are you happy with? It's a good exercise - don't worry about what anybody else says they 'should' do - just focus on what you need them to do now to make your life better.

Wow, so many comments, thank you! Have taken on board all the advice and definitely going to make time to read the no cry sleep solution. It's been really helpful to hear other perspectives and has actually helped me to see that i am doing the right thing for my twins. So, the plan is to keep going as we are and to try to always rock or shush rather than feed and go from there. As they get older, ie, 2 plus I can explain more to them and hopefully it will all get easier. They are actually the happiest toddlers, full of energy and life and most days I'm not tired, just used to it. Think after a few really bad nights I was questioning myself but feel a lot better now and confident this is the right way. Obviously everyone has different approaches, I just mean personally I believe meeting their needs is crucial to their development and wellbeing - plenty of research and studies regarding this if you google. Thanks everyone!