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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To move to France?

132 replies

FasterThanASnakeAndAMongoose · 28/09/2016 15:33

Dh has the opportunity to transfer to the French office of his company. It's in a nice bit of the south of France.

We have 2 dc (7 months and 2yo). I am on maternity leave from my teaching job. I could potentially find work teaching in France (I have a French degree and am bilingual). Resettlement package is good. We could rent our house out and rent over there while we decided if we wanted to make it permanent. Kids could grow up bilingual. The lifestyle would be great. We could go skiing at the weekends and drink wine and go to French supermarkets.

On the other hand...

Dh doesn't speak a word of French. The company does all business in English but he'd still have to learn if we were living there. I could teach him though, and work would also help with tutoring.

Our life here is really good. We have loads of friends. We've just spent a fortune renovating our house - much more than we would have if we were going to rent it out. We're in the catchment for the best state schools in our town. Our families are all within a few hours drive. Parents are getting older and might need us more (although they all think we should go). I'd have to give up my job which I love.

We would initially go for a couple of years, but even that would be such an upheaval. My job would be gone, we'd miss the school application process for our eldest.

I think it could be really great but I'm also completely terrified at the thought and feel so sad at the idea of leaving our life here behind.

Has anyone done this? Any regrets or tips? Should we just go for it? I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
mixety · 01/10/2016 11:44

There are very, very few charity shops where I live in France. Certainly nothing like in the UK where there are loads everywhere. I know that Emma's and the croix Rouge exist but i have yet to see any of their outlets.

OTOH the French are mad for brocantes, and there is one somewhere in the vicinity practically every weekend. That should satisfy your need to rummage for bargains. I hate the haggling part though.

mixety · 01/10/2016 11:44

Emmaus! Auto correct.

Bobochic · 01/10/2016 12:06

The lack of charity shops in France is a real pain!

Over the years I have found places to donate used stuff (there is a mother-and-baby refuge that loves toys and children's clothes) but you always have to sort stuff yourself - there's no dumping random stuff in bags as there is in the UK.

mixety · 01/10/2016 13:55

Bobo - there are those "Relais" collection points, sort of big enclosed bins with a flap for posting through bags of clothes. There are a few round where I live, often in car parks or near stations. But they are often full and seem to be left full for ages, I can't always get my bags in there. I don't know where the stuff goes afterwards either. Maybe there are fewer in your area than in mine...I am in city suburbs.

PlasticBertrand · 01/10/2016 14:26

They go at a mahoosive warehouse in Chanteloup-les-Vignes (78) which occasionally has an open day sale Smile

Bobochic · 01/10/2016 14:29

My local relais bin is a magnet for gypsies.

LotusElise1 · 01/10/2016 19:26

We have just emigrated to the UK from Australia so I can give you some tips on how that has gone. We are 4 months in and we are all finding it very difficult right now. I have 2 girls 9 & 7 and they have settled into school really well but are still very homesick. Just today I held my 7 year old while she sobbed and sobbed holding her old class photo saying how much she missed her friends. That's heartbreaking!
I am terribly homesick. Like you I had a great job I loved, wonderful friends who I saw every week and lots of family nearby. I lived here 14 years ago and thought I'd be fine with the move. I have always made friends easily so thought I'd have no trouble. It's just been so different from what I imagined. I've found it so hard to meet people. The mums at school are not particularly friendly.
DH has also had a hard time with work. He's not loving it and is regretting our decision.
I'm not saying don't do it, and I still think we made the right decision in coming as it was something we'd always wanted to do. Just think carefully about all possible outcomes and how you'd feel about them. How will you cope if you don't meet people, your kids are miserable and DH doesn't like his job. I just keep saying there's still time for it to work out, it's still early days. It's a great experience for my kids even if they don't see it now.

SuperFlyHigh · 01/10/2016 19:32

It's ok if you are near a big town with lots to do.

Parents have a holiday home in SW countryside which although it's lovely it's very remote (town 10 minutes drive away) but unless you have a job etc it is boring as hell in winter but gets better spring/summer (very season/tourist based).

The French also tend to have different attitudes in countryside to animals - eg verging on cruelty etc.

But lots of nice people, interesting people etc.

They can also be quite rude if you're outsiders (English especially) eg there was some land on side of the house that the French sellers said the owner had offered to sell them to eg put a swimming pool there, when parents asked the local maire (mayor) suddenly said it was being kept "for his daughter" - nothing has been built since and that was about 7 years ago! Parents have bought other bordering land for their pool though!

You can probably get teaching work.

LotusElise1 · 01/10/2016 19:38

Of course you will be much closer to home than we are and can far more easily go home to visit when you're feeling particularly homesick than we can. That will make things easier.

Happyhippy45 · 01/10/2016 19:39

Go. It'll be a great experience for you.....or not. You won't know unless you try.
We moved to the USA for a minimum of a year with a 14 month and 4 year old. We came back to the UK 10 years later.
The language you would think wouldn't be a problem but it was. Our regional British accent was hard to understand and they use a lot of different words and phrasing. Not as hard as learning a foreign language but difficult just the same. We adjusted. Assimilated with the natives.
We had a great time over there. Few ups and downs too but it was on the whole a good experience. We also got closer to our family and friends who visited us as instead of the monthly get togethers for dinner they stayed with us for a couple of weeks. It was lovely. We also made some lovely friends too.
I would however not recommend moving a 13 year old back "home."
My DH work pleaded with him to stay another 2 years. I really should have stamped my feet and insisted we moved back before high school started for my DD.

GinAndTunic · 01/10/2016 19:39

Go! It's a fantastic opportunity.

SuperFlyHigh · 01/10/2016 19:40

Stepdad spoke hardly any French so takes lessons now but they're retired. It is essential to learn French (a few of the English people who have holiday homes or live there take lessons), there are a few expats usually English who speak little or no French and the French generally dislike this... I'm not surprised either!

There are more and more French people speaking English from what I've found these days even rurally and they correct my appalling French (very rusty but I do try!).

Lots of free stuff in countryside like is it brocantes (markets with fireworks), fireworks for saints days sometimes, evening market with food stalls etc in summer where parents are but it's dull as hell outside the season! In South you should be better off though.

inoa77 · 01/10/2016 20:00

OP, I would think very carefully about the move if I were you. I moved to France a few months ago.

I lived in the UK for years, most of them in London, which I absolutely loved, but with two very young kids, my partner and I both thought we would get a better quality of life in France. We are both French, which explains why it seemed so attractive, and indeed rational, on paper.

My partner did find a good job very quickly, and we moved to a huge house with a big, beautiful garden with a nice pool, in a small town, schools nearby, very good neighborhood, and only a few minutes away from one major city in the South of the country. What more can one ask for, you might think.

But - and that is a huge but: we really are quite miserable here. All our friends live in London. We do feel very lonely most of the time - and we are. We miss our life in the UK so much.

France is a very peculiar country. Well, all countries are, but the French really do things and think very differently than the Brits. Cliché, but very true. We are still experiencing a huge cultural shock - and adjusting is not easy. And we are French.

Everything - and I mean EVERYTHING seems super complicated and very administrative. People are usually not very open, and I think the recent terrorist attacks have changed things for the worst. The general atmosphere is indeed quite tense.

Your thoughts about finding a job in teaching upon arrival is not very realistic I am afraid. Many posts were correct in emphasizing how difficult it is to 'meet the criteria' to be offered any job in France, let alone one in education. If you are not completely fluent, you can forget it. And if you don't have the relevant qualifications (which in French means only the French ones), it is also near impossible. I have a degree from one of the top French Grandes Ecoles and find it hard.

Language is crucial to master if you want to integrate - again this is true I think of every place, but perhaps even more so when it comes to France, a place where language has always held a specific and distinctively important place in public life.

Put simply, French people usually don't speak English, and while they will love your accent, you will not be able to integrate if you don't speak the language, full stop. This alone can be very isolating - I am thinking about your partner here, learning French from scratch is very ambitious, it can be done but it would require a massive investment in terms of time and energy, and not mastering the language can really be an issue.

The school system is quite complicated too - like everything else. You do have lots of good public schools, but you also have to be careful if you live in a big city. Most of the time, well off people put heir offsprings in private catholic schools, and often for good reasons: security is a major issue in many places now. Fees are usually not an issue however, on the positive side...

I realize I do paint a rather grim picture of the place, one which may well be tainted by current experience which is not a happy one. But, having lived in the UK for many years, i also know that France tends to be much idealized over there - many British people spend their holidays in France, or have their second home in a Dordogne village, love French food and wine, ect... and assume they would love moving there because of this. Well trust me, living there is an entirely different game.

On the plus side, and objectively, the health care system is really excellent compared to the NHS (however much the British people love their NHS). House prices are cheaper. Food is good, wine is good. And yes, it is true that many people move here and love it here, or at least have a good life - I just don't happen to be one of them.

I totally understand your fears, and in my views they are justified: with insight, if I could go back in time, I would not make the choice I made 8 months ago. We had a great life in the UK, great friends, not even family but just great friends, and we miss all this every single day, in our huge house in this lovely French town. Let me add that we did not have great jobs in the UK either - in fact my partner has a much better job here, but he still misses the UK crazily.

Take time to think about it, and don't romanticize the move too much - the thing about the kids growing bilingual for example :).

Wishing you the best whichever path you chose to take.

GloriaGaynor · 01/10/2016 20:04

I'm not sure how easy it would be for DH to transfer back either. The main office is the French one and the organisation is really reigning back on their UK branch since Brexit. Who knows what the implications will be??

By the sounds of it Brexit may well do for the UK branch of DH's work so the move could potentially save his job. If we go for hard Brexit - no single market, no freedom of movement, no customs union - which is looking increasingly likely - many, many companies will relocate within the EU. FOM restrictions will make it harder for you to return, but no harder than the pre-EU days.

My family has a house in the S of France, the weather and lifestyle make for a good quality life. I know some of the cities very well. PM me if you'd like more info.

Btw, I think the whole question of fitting in is a psychological one. I felt at home in France the very first time I went aged 11 and I still do, despite the fact I've never lived there full time and my French isn't fluent. You can make a decision that you belong there and make that your reality.

Justaboy · 01/10/2016 20:11

inoa77 I think your summing up of France is quite accurate. I now have a French ex wife who's moved back there and she hasn't found it that easy and shes in teaching too and had to do a bit of re training.

As to the integration i don't suppose France is any worse than the average Suffolk village where Three generations in the churchyard is the usual "acceptance" qualification;!

However I'd say to the OP to go for the experience better or worse and if you can rent the house out here you have that at least to come back to so a contingency plan is called for methinks.

As to hubby learning the lingo its up to his attitudes and abilities.

I'm near on useless in French but what i can say I was made to feel very welcome wherever i went by most all the people i met:)

With the exception of Paris but a lot of French people will tell you there's France and there's Paris ;!

GloriaGaynor · 01/10/2016 20:18

Put simply, French people usually don't speak English, and while they will love your accent, you will not be able to integrate if you don't speak the language, full stop. This alone can be very isolating - I am thinking about your partner here - learning French from scratch is very ambitious, it can be done

It only takes a couple of years to learn a language if you put your mind to it. All my old French friends speak excellent English, and more French people speak good English than English people speak French ime.

I'd say the French can be quite standoffish to English who haven't bothered to learn any French, but they are very warm and welcoming to anyone who makes an effort to speak at least some French.

However, I completely agree with you on the difficulties of qualifying to work in France, and was going to suggest the OP considers teaching English as a foreign language or working in an international school.

MerdeAlor · 01/10/2016 20:19

I agree with many of the observations that inoa has made. It's a wonderful place to visit but living in France is totally different to holidaying in France.

Listen carefully to what french residents and ex pats are saying because they are talking about the reality rather than the fantasy.

It is an opportunity for personal growth and adventure and having done it myself twice in the same as you, I can recommend the experience, particularly for a fixed amount of time.

I do have big regrets about the career break though as I assumed I could find work here with my qualifications - nope!

Liara · 01/10/2016 20:22

Moved to Southern France from the UK over 10 years ago. Had two children here. Am seriously thinking of going back.

We live in the most breathtakingly beautiful place, truly idyllic, in a lovely old farmhouse surrounded by nature. We love the lifestyle, as do our dc (who have never known anything else). The food is wonderful, the weather is fantastic, and we regularly think how lucky we have been to be able to bring up our children in this environment.

But, and it is a big enough but to make us want to leave, the political situation is becoming very, very uncomfortable. The rise in nationalism and antiislamism is tangible and very, very present. And that is despite the fact that I don't send my dc to school, and therefore move in a very liberal and inclusive milieu of other home schoolers. It actually scares me a little bit. I do not feel completely safe here, and that is said as a white atheist. I can't imagine what it must be like to be a minority of any kind. I loved the melting pot feel of London, and really want my dc to think that that is what's normal, not what we have here.

The home schooling is a result of taking one look at the schooling system and recoiling in horror. In fairness, we did not have many choices and perhaps in a city with international/alternative schools that would be different, but the mainstream state schooling system round where I am is all about having pretty handwriting, rote learning and conforming, conforming and conforming some more. Bullying is rife, and largely ignored by the school authorities.

Other smaller but cumulatively trying consideratons are that:

Dealing with the French administration is a Kafkaesque nightmare. We try and make a joke about it, but it really does become very wearying after a while.

Overall, the attitude to children borders on the hostile. Just going around a supermarket or in a park, you constantly hear children being told off, constantly and for absolutely anything. They seem to want to squash all life out of their young ones.

Being a young adult here is also fairly miserable. Jobs are really hard to come by, and when they do get jobs they are treated, frankly, like shit. I am seeing a lot of the older children of my friends going through this at the time, and it is strengthening my resolve to be somewhere else when my dc hit that age.

So overall, if I were in your position I would make very sure that you have the door open to go back.

Liara · 01/10/2016 20:22

Moved to Southern France from the UK over 10 years ago. Had two children here. Am seriously thinking of going back.

We live in the most breathtakingly beautiful place, truly idyllic, in a lovely old farmhouse surrounded by nature. We love the lifestyle, as do our dc (who have never known anything else). The food is wonderful, the weather is fantastic, and we regularly think how lucky we have been to be able to bring up our children in this environment.

But, and it is a big enough but to make us want to leave, the political situation is becoming very, very uncomfortable. The rise in nationalism and antiislamism is tangible and very, very present. And that is despite the fact that I don't send my dc to school, and therefore move in a very liberal and inclusive milieu of other home schoolers. It actually scares me a little bit. I do not feel completely safe here, and that is said as a white atheist. I can't imagine what it must be like to be a minority of any kind. I loved the melting pot feel of London, and really want my dc to think that that is what's normal, not what we have here.

The home schooling is a result of taking one look at the schooling system and recoiling in horror. In fairness, we did not have many choices and perhaps in a city with international/alternative schools that would be different, but the mainstream state schooling system round where I am is all about having pretty handwriting, rote learning and conforming, conforming and conforming some more. Bullying is rife, and largely ignored by the school authorities.

Other smaller but cumulatively trying consideratons are that:

Dealing with the French administration is a Kafkaesque nightmare. We try and make a joke about it, but it really does become very wearying after a while.

Overall, the attitude to children borders on the hostile. Just going around a supermarket or in a park, you constantly hear children being told off, constantly and for absolutely anything. They seem to want to squash all life out of their young ones.

Being a young adult here is also fairly miserable. Jobs are really hard to come by, and when they do get jobs they are treated, frankly, like shit. I am seeing a lot of the older children of my friends going through this at the time, and it is strengthening my resolve to be somewhere else when my dc hit that age.

So overall, if I were in your position I would make very sure that you have the door open to go back.

Liara · 01/10/2016 20:22

Moved to Southern France from the UK over 10 years ago. Had two children here. Am seriously thinking of going back.

We live in the most breathtakingly beautiful place, truly idyllic, in a lovely old farmhouse surrounded by nature. We love the lifestyle, as do our dc (who have never known anything else). The food is wonderful, the weather is fantastic, and we regularly think how lucky we have been to be able to bring up our children in this environment.

But, and it is a big enough but to make us want to leave, the political situation is becoming very, very uncomfortable. The rise in nationalism and antiislamism is tangible and very, very present. And that is despite the fact that I don't send my dc to school, and therefore move in a very liberal and inclusive milieu of other home schoolers. It actually scares me a little bit. I do not feel completely safe here, and that is said as a white atheist. I can't imagine what it must be like to be a minority of any kind. I loved the melting pot feel of London, and really want my dc to think that that is what's normal, not what we have here.

The home schooling is a result of taking one look at the schooling system and recoiling in horror. In fairness, we did not have many choices and perhaps in a city with international/alternative schools that would be different, but the mainstream state schooling system round where I am is all about having pretty handwriting, rote learning and conforming, conforming and conforming some more. Bullying is rife, and largely ignored by the school authorities.

Other smaller but cumulatively trying consideratons are that:

Dealing with the French administration is a Kafkaesque nightmare. We try and make a joke about it, but it really does become very wearying after a while.

Overall, the attitude to children borders on the hostile. Just going around a supermarket or in a park, you constantly hear children being told off, constantly and for absolutely anything. They seem to want to squash all life out of their young ones.

Being a young adult here is also fairly miserable. Jobs are really hard to come by, and when they do get jobs they are treated, frankly, like shit. I am seeing a lot of the older children of my friends going through this at the time, and it is strengthening my resolve to be somewhere else when my dc hit that age.

So overall, if I were in your position I would make very sure that you have the door open to go back.

MerdeAlor · 01/10/2016 20:23

Jobs in my local international school = rare as hens teeth and massively sought after as there are so many unemployed teachers.
International schools IME can take their pick from teachers with international school experience throughout the world.

Liara · 01/10/2016 20:25

Sorry about double post, don't know what happened there.

Twinchaos1 · 01/10/2016 20:26

We went for 2 years to a country where neither of us spoke the language with two young school age kids. It was hard and crazy, tough going, even harder coming back. I would go again tho, kids fluent and adults passable in another language. I am much more confident in myself. We are looking to do it again! All be it understanding what we are getting into a bit better.

GloriaGaynor · 01/10/2016 20:29

I lived in France for several years and really disagree that an enjoyable life there is a fantasy or based on holiday thinking.

It was very positive for me and I know a considerable number of English people there FT (as in decade or longer) who are very happy with no plans to return to the UK.

I really didn't miss England that much tbh even though I have good friends there. I have equally good friends in France.

The bureaucracy is mind-blowing, but the French do love their administration.

GloriaGaynor · 01/10/2016 20:32

I agree that jobs in international schools are highly sought after, but I have two friends who work in them, so it's not impossible.

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