To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

[Swanlaked]

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

"Yeah, it's so much better to have your child contract a horrible, debilitating and/or fatal illness rather than get autism or line the pockets of "big pharma". Keep sticking it to the man! /sarcasm."

Cheff I'm not an anti Vaxxer but it's clear they're simply working on the (correct) assumption that they child is extremely unlikely to be seriously ill or killed by these diseases: and that they are extremely unlikely to kil anyone else

These things do happen but as you know, they're extremely rare

Head, no you don't need 100% vaccination for herd immunity. But the more dickheads who don't vaccinate for non medical reasons (and the more we indulge this bullshit), the more likely it is we lose herd immunity and people like me are put at risk. And no, it is not a negligible risk.

Headofthehive55 the suggestion isn't that you'd force them to have the vaccinations, just that if they didn't have them they wouldn't be allowed into taxpayer-funded mainstream schools. This would minimise the risk they pose to others.

Take your HIV example; you can't force them to be treated but they are not able to give blood. In this case taking the medication wouldn't actually mean they could give blood because the risk would still be present, but you get the gist. If you don't manage the risk through getting vaccinated we will manage the risk by insisting you educate yourself elsewhere.

Although I have said upthread I don't think it's as easy as that due to wealthier people being more able to make the choice to educate elsewhere.

I am as old as Methusila and thus had no vaccines. I have had Measles, Chicken Pox and Mumps. I had mumps twice. Mumps as an adult was appalling. I caught Mumps from a child in my class who 'couldn't possibly have mumps as he's had the MMR'.
I also come from a family with quite a history of ASD, As does my husband.
DS was due his MMR while the ASD scare raged on. He has had single vaccines for Rubella and Measles but not mumps. He is still autistic and I feel like a bit of a wally. The Dr who did our single vaccines advised me to get him the MMR when he hit puberty so that si what I shall be doing.
DD was born after the MMR debacle but DH was still suspicious so she has had single vaccines for Rubella and Measles. She is also about to have her MMR. She too is autistic......
At the time I did what I considered to be right for my children.
I would do it again in a heart beat.

as someone has pointed out upthread some children can have terrible, sometimes even fatal, unforeseeable reactions to vaccinations

The risks of a life threatening reaction to a vaccine is minute compared to the risks of: Measles
In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. The disease remains one of the leading causes of death among young children globally, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine.

In the UK the state is allowed to administer medical treatment upon children whose parents refuse it, for 'religious' grounds. Vaccinations should be in the same category.

You can the MMR on the nhs for free at any stage as long as there isnt a contraindication which would make it unsafe.

Measles outbreaks happen frequently in London with overseas travel to areas where measles infection is still prevalent.

*you can have

maths the stats for those risks are exactly the ones I've previously said should be presented alongside the benefits to make exactly that point! Then when someone says "my child could have a serious reaction to the vaccinations" people can say "here, look at this, the risks are minute compared to the risks of not vaccinating".

Do peoe who work at the school have to produce medical records before being allowed to work in school, where children must be vaccinated

eve pretty sure vaccinations are brought up in teacher training. I know my friend recently had an MMR booster in prep for teacher training because she didn't know if she had had it.

Most teachers are switched on and get the yearly flu jab too.

Measles, mumps and rubella can all cause disablities that mimic autism. Even if there was a slight risk that the MMR could cause autism such a risk is less than the full blown version of the diseases.

I think that anti vaxers should visit their local graveyard and read the tomb stones. Think of the Victorian family who lost 3 children in a matter of days.

Maybe making vacinnation an admission requirement should be a choice of the board of governors of a school. It would be interesting if vaccinated children were given priority for outstanding schools.

I think it's a good question to ask which vacinnes should be complusory. I would like the chickenpox vaccine to be available as an option, but it's not as essential as the MMR or the polio, Diptheria or whooping cough. I don't think it would be fair to use school admissions to bully people into giving their children the flu vaccine.

Out of curiosity what would people seem a suitable medical reason.

I mean how would one go about proving an allergy to one of the ingredients?

Would people really accept that because a half sister reacted three years ago a dr today advised against? Especially when even twins don't share allergies.

What constitutes a good enough reason for people and what happens in cases where people move around alot and tracking down the original Dr who advised someone against proves to difficult.

It's all very well saying about people having a valid medical reason but how many of you would believe someone who told you that?

eatsleephockeyrepeat, yes I agree but sadly some people are so 'brain washed' that telling them risks are 'minute' seems to translate to 'it probably happens every other time'...

We can force medical treatment on children and we do.

I think we could also consider taking driving licenses off parents with unvaccinated children. If they won't help look after there own and the communities children then we can't trust them to keep the community safe whilst driving.

Oh wait, why did we force people to wear seat belts, was it for their own good?

Plus surely it's a waste of Dr's time to be having to write exemption letters for multiple children who in fact are perfectly healthy and no one really knows if they'd be OK or not.

eat a hiv person gains nothing from giving blood so I don't think it's a valid example.

However, we are short of blood so as you are suggesting, perhaps we should make everyone give blood? This providing a service (herd immunity) to the community. Compulsion is a slippery slope.

And as immunity does wear off, perhaps compulsory re testing? I was immune to rubella some 25 years later, but not 30!

MMR is a live vaccine so surprised the family of an immune compromised child want classmates to have it - risk of shedding and harming the compromised child.

Mine are vaxxed but if I'd read the leaflet (interesting they don't give it to you before the jab, no?) I might have thought twice. Real people's children have experienced these very devastating side effects - easy to be pro vax until you're the unlucky one. www.medicines.org.uk/emcmobile/PIL.20969.latest.pdf

My little lad is due his 8-week vaccinations tomorrow. I'm slightly nervous, because there's always the small risk that he'll have an adverse reaction. However, for me, the benefits far outweigh the risk, and I think it's irresponsible (much like texting whilst driving, as mentioned by a previous poster) to needlessly reduce herd immunity.

My brother wasn't vaccinated in the late 70s against whooping cough due to scaremongering, and yep, he caught whooping cough. He lived, but was very, very ill - and he was healthy to start with. God knows what would have happened if he'd had pre-existing health issues.

We received the same letter about a week or so ago swan, wonder if its the same school?!

I now know theres also a sick bug in the school with multiple children being sick but not sent home! Surely if a child at the school is receiving chemo they would be more strict about this and follow a strict 48 hour clear rule and sending home sick kids?!

Wearing a seat belt is not in any way harmful though. Having a vaccine can be.

You are right we do get court orders to force people to have treatment. However, it's usually on the basis of their own interests, and there is usually some capacity problems.

there are issues surrounding consent and trust.

Oh please - people who don't vaccinate shouldn't be allowed to drive?

I don't agree with compulsory vaccination.

really don't pretend that modern mortality rates are purely or even primarily down to vaccines. I think you've got mixed up with antibiotics