To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

[Swanlaked]

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

well, breakwindandfire, all I can say to your point is my child was vaccine damaged and is not recorded as such. she wasn't injured severely enough to be awarded a VDP, and so I never made a claim, but she certainly was severely ill for a month. so using those stats is not representative.

Many are dismissive because they are true believers, but others would naturally fear career limitation.

How is this even plausible? Surely the most rogue, anti-establishment doctors across the globe have a network to vent their ideas. Why have they not spoken out?

It's not just plausible, it's probably true. Why is it so implausible?

Great I'm sorry your child had an adverse reaction and hope she recovered well. I had a adverse reaction to the Yellow Fever vaccination a few years ago. However, that doesn't make me dispute the efficacy of the Yellow Fever vaccine. I was unpleasantly unwell, but not as unwell I'd have been with Yellow Fever (I appreciate your daughter's reaction was more severe and she'd be one of the medical exemptions for vaccination)

For example; bananas are safe. There are tiny numbers of people who have severe reactions to bananas (usually people with underlying problems with nut allergies). That's not a reason to be wary of bananas.

BreakWind: Your analogy assumes you know the number of people who have banana allergies. The point is that the number of people who have vaccine reactions or a propensity to vaccine reactions is unknown.

No, I don't think the analogy does assume you know the number of banana-allergic people - simply that eating bananas is hugely widespread and even reports (rather than verified cases) of banana allergy are rare in comparison.

I'm just chuffed that banana allergies are getting a bit of notice on MN. Most folk think I'm making up my banana allergy.

'There are tiny numbers of people who have severe reactions to bananas'

It's right there in the post above yours.

Above mine - of course

Yes - but that doesn't require knowledge of the absolute number; simply the relative size of the group which is inferred rather than known (if banana allergies were more widespread it's logical you'd hear more about them and banana would be listed as an allergen in ingredient lists'. Imprecise but broadly analogous.

In the meantime...

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.newsweek.com/measles-eradicated-americas-503521%3famp=1?client=safari

Great news!!

I am confused, if the ill child has had their MMR surely they wouldn't be at risk of catching MMR from the Un Vaccinated children? Or doesn't it work like that?

Imagine the immune system as an army. Vaccinations are like exercises for the army, they teach the army how to react to enemy attacks.

It doesn't matter how well trained an army is, if it has been wiped out then it can't fight the enemy.

This is the situation someone who is immunosupressed is in, they have no army. Chemo for cancer ends if the cancer is eradicated and then the person can start recruiting and training a new army. If they are immunospuressed for life, ie people who have had organ transplants, people with chronic illnesses and people who take chemo for life then their army may not exist at all, or may be just half numbers, training in the form of some vaccinations can help but if the vaccine is 'live' then it is the same as an enemy attack.

And when people say they 'boost' their children's immune systems with lots of veg and vitamins - well they are giving the army the best rations but it doesn't make that much difference.

Obviously sometimes things go wrong during exercises, sometimes it means a fever for a day or so, other times it is more serious, but generally a trained army is better than an untrained one.

The size of the group saying their child suffered an unrecorded vaccine reaction is rather large, Jassy. There's also of course the circumstantial evidence around the epidemiology of immune disorders and ASD, which suggests the group could be even larger than those who've sought to pursue an inquiry with a health professional and failed.

^
The size of the group saying their child suffered an unrecorded vaccine reaction is rather large, Jassy.^

Relative to the number of vaccinated children?

There's also of course the circumstantial evidence around the epidemiology of immune disorders and ASD, which suggests the group could be even larger than those who've sought to pursue an inquiry with a health professional and failed.

No, it really doesn't. Thanks to Wakefield's lies, this is one area where there is a much, much stronger evidence base. It is not reasonable to link ASD to vaccines. There is no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise.

I didn't think Great was disputing the efficacy of the vaccine. I thought she was just pointing out that, for her children, the risk of vaccination is higher.

I think if you read the paper you'd see that Wakefield says no link is proven, but that more research would be helpful. I don't actually see any problem with that. And he said children should still get M, M and R vaccines, but not together. I don't see any problem with that either. The doctors that worked with him on the paper were cleared, you know that, I guess? I think the case shut down research rather than answered the question. The population studies since have been aimed at shutting down the question itself.

As to the relative numbers - well we don't know do we? We agreed that earlier. You make your assessment, and it will be different to my assessment - but we don't know the number of unrecorded vaccine injuries, and we probably never will.

Er, has anyone noticed my link? Measles has officially been eradicated in the Americas!!

Like polio in India ?

The issue of under reporting

Reasons behind under reporting

the point i was making in my last post wasn't to do with the efficacy of vaccines or anything like that, but that there ARE unrecorded vaccine damaged children out there. I know, because I have one. that's all my point was.

I thought the U.S. had a measles outbreak last year?

Winchester, I'm sorry, suggesting that research on a potential link between autism/ASD and vaccines was shut down is simply and demonstrably untrue.

Are you thinking of the population studies I mentioned in the post you're referencing?

I am thinking of a wide variety of studies using different methods, not just population studies.

The studies I've seen have all be aimed at answering a question - the nature of scientific inquiry - not 'shutting down' one line of questioning or possibility or promoting another.

To be fair any scientist who came up with the same conclusions as Andrew Wakefield during or after his smearing, discrediting, sacking, GMC hearing and loss of career would probably burn the findings and take the ashes out to the middle of the Pacific ocean and throw them overboard in a concrete coffin.

Not at all, if they were arrived at without resorting to fraud.
What 'smearing'? That implies untrue things were said about him.