To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

[Swanlaked]

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

BreakWind, someone else linked to some of those papers up thread. Your 'corker' was one of them and is discussing measles in a developing country - hardly comparable to the UK. I'll look at the others later.

nolonger, it was a case series and from the paper itself:

"We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue.
If there is a causal link between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and this syndrome, a rising incidence might be anticipated after the introduction of this vaccine in the UK in 1988. Published evidence is inadequate to show whether there is a change in incidence22 or a link with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine.23"

I'm sure as a scientist you would see a lot of poorly reviewed papers, because relatively few of them are going to have any public health impact.

To be honest, bumbley, you're splitting hairs, and I really don't care. If you don't want to believe that a fall in the incidence of mumps leads to a fall in the rate of mumps-related adverse consequences, knock yourself out. Just leave the rest of us to apply logic.

I do have several friends receive this letter (different schools). I didn't know there is a cancer child in each and every school. Sorry, I do not buy this bullshit at all. Smacks of lies. Big fat government lies that people buy. Again.

I think this 'letter' and the subsequent discussion is paving the road to compulsory vaccinations in the UK. As it is in the USA. Pity, pity, pity!

Stig124, the world is full of so-called "poisoned vaccinated people". Do you keep your family in sterile isolation to avoid contact with them?

Google, can I direct you to a roll of tinfoil and instructions for making a hat out of it? You're going to need it with all these eevil conspiracies flying around.

I do have several friends receive this letter (different schools). I didn't know there is a cancer child in each and every school. Sorry, I do not buy this bullshit at all. Smacks of lies. Big fat government lies that people buy. Again.

'Cancer child'?

Vile. Great that you get to exercise your right to be a quirky libertarian at someone else's risk.

I'll start by saying non-vaxers boil my piss.I think they are free riders who only have the luxury of choice because (nearly) everyone else has a sense of social responsibility.
That said, they are at liberty to do as they please and their argument would be that if the parents of the sick child don't like it then they should not send them to school.
I honestly don't understand how people think that exposure to a weakened virus is more dangerous than exposure to the real thing.
As others have saiD Wakefield and friends were lone voices in the wilderness, all of whom have since retracted their work, which has been proven to be based on falsified data.

I just make their immune system stronger, in fact they are stronger than any fully vaccinated child I know

My twins are fully vaccinated but have not had the mmr, they have both had the measles vaccine done. We have good reason for this. They were born at 23 weeks and have had numerous bowel problems, both had nec and nearly died. Our consultants all agreed that in our position they would think twice about vaccinating with the mmr in our position. Interestingly one consultant was actually part of the research regarding the mmr and chose not to vaccinate his children off the back of that. He would not talk about it and said that we had to draw our own conclusions around why he chose not to give the mmr to his children and said that it is a safe vaccine. Just wanted to give a reason why a parent may not give the mmr.

discussing measles in a developing country - hardly comparable to the UK

Why not? The measles study found that unvaccinated children had worse outcomes than vaccinated children. Yes, because it was a developing country the outcomes were far worse than the UK, but the basic principle is that the vaccinated children fared better.

"I just make their immune system stronger, in fact they are stronger than any fully vaccinated child I know"

Okaaaaaay...

bumbley but he made the cases fit his theory. Did you read my link? It's not really a case series if you make the clinical stuff up, or fiddle the time lines, or say that kids were developing normally prior to the vaccine when the paediatricians looking after them had prior concerns.

And the "did not prove", "if there was a casual link" etc is irrelevant. Nothing can be proved by a case series - he was just putting it out there to create concern.

The most interesting thing about it all is how he was describing the syndrome of regressive autism and gut issues following MMR before he found the cases.

Lady, It's not exactly 'logical' to give the number of cases in Canada and compare them to case figures nearly 30 years later in response to someone asking you on what you based a statement about a decrease in adverse consequences of mumps as a result of the vaccine. But hey, as you say, 'knock yourself out'. It was just a question and if you can't answer it, that's fair enough.

Wow at 23 weeks that is amazing.

So do anti-vaxxers believe that no child should be vaccinated? Their ideal end goal is that we throw them all in the bin and go back to the pre-vaccine levels of measles, mumps, polio, TB etc with all the childhood mortality and life-long disabilities that that brought? Because that sounds horrific to me, that they would wish that on millions of future children.

Thank you Hotlingbling we have been so lucky! Strapping 3 year old with absolutely no signs they were bon so early and smaller than the palm of a hand.

So do anti-vaxxers believe that no child should be vaccinated?

Typically anti-vaxxers do indeed like for other people to be vaccinated.

I'll look at the others later.

The trouble is you won't. You immediately dismissed the earlier cited scientific studies due to their supposed 'conflict of interest'' ie the scientists at one point had worked on studies or given speeches funded by drug companies.

But how do you know that? Because they told you! They were upfront in declaring it in the study to avoid accusations of impropriety or bias.

Now if it turned out that a study had been secretly funded by Big Pharma and scientists were hiding it, you'd have a point. But like anti-vaxxers you aren't intersted in the science, you're only looking for a 'gotcha' point. Even thought there's no gotcha.

I can assure you the 'cancer child' at my daughters' primary existed. And nearly died at various points because her immune system was so shot to pieces by the treatment.

I am happy to add that she's now a strapping 13-year-old and still one of DD2's best mates.

"So do anti-vaxxers believe that no child should be vaccinated? Their ideal end goal is that we throw them all in the bin and go back to the pre-vaccine levels of measles, mumps, polio, TB etc with all the childhood mortality and life-long disabilities that that brought? Because that sounds horrific to me, that they would wish that on millions of future children"

I was wondering this too stormtreader! I assume this must be the case. Let's shut down the terrible Big Pharma in it's entirety while we're at it. And translational academic research too. After all ALL medicines have side effects! Welcome back to the Middle Ages!

Breakwind, because if the same study had been conducted in the UK, it's extremely unlikely that you would have seen the same results. The unvaccinated children would have been unlikely to have contracted and died from measles. There are many other factors that could influence the outcome in developing countries that we are very fortunate not to have to consider in the UK.

nolonger, I'll have to read it in full later. Plenty of research does start out with a very small group of patients who are exhibiting similar symptoms and are investigated to see if they have anything in common. As for it 'being put out there to create concern', I think the inclusion of those paragraphs was an attempt to avoid that. Tbh, when I read the paper, I wasn't sure why there'd been all the fuss anyway. 'We might have found something in a small subgroup of patients, we haven't proved anything, further research is required.' It shouldn't really be news.

"Interestingly one consultant was actually part of the research regarding the mmr and chose not to vaccinate his children off the back of that. He would not talk about it and said that we had to draw our own conclusions around why he chose not to give the mmr to his children and said that it is a safe vaccine"

How extraordinarily unprofessional of him!

Yes let's go back to the pre vaccine levels