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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this takes not vaccinating to a whole new level

999 replies

Swanlaked · 26/09/2016 12:31

DD has a child at school who has cancer. The school sent a letter home asking all parents to please think about giving their child the MMR if they haven't had it and also to inform them immediately if any child was in contact with chicken pox.

One of the mums at the school is still refusing to have her 3DC vaccinated. No health issues it's big pharma/poison/conspiracy theory crap

AIBU at this point to think the school should seek removal of the children and tell the bloody thicko to find another school for them?

OP posts:

Headofthehive55 · 26/09/2016 19:38

People are harmed by medical care, even though it's done with the best of intentions. That why most healthcare workers understand the concept of freedom to choose not to do something.

Some people would have the power to save a life, by donating a kidney whilst still alive. Do we force that? No, yet people die from that consequence. So thereby failing to force someone to undertake an act that could potentially harm you in order to save someone is so bad it should be punished?

An immunocompromised person also has a choice. To go outside or not. Obviously it's a difficult choice, but a choice nevertheless.

It's one thing to have the vaccination, but quite another to build immunity. Something that people forget. Just because you have had a vaccine - are you morally responsible for checking it's worked? And how many times do you think it's reasonable to get the vaccine to see if it works? Once? Twice?

Yawnyawnallday · 26/09/2016 19:42

"An immunocompromised person also has a choice. To go outside or not. Obviously it's a difficult choice, but a choice nevertheless. "

Nice.

slightlyglitterbrained · 26/09/2016 19:44

A small number of children will die from very rare reactions to other medical treatment - 1 in 100,000 risk of death from general anaesthetic, for example. Rare, but when your kid is going under by fuck you bloody well think about it.

There are no magical tricks you can play to remove all risk. Fucking with crystal shit and wanking off with your wanky antivax pals on Facebook does sweet FA to protect your children. It's just a comforting fantasy to indulge in, at the cost of everyone else in society, including your children, as a pp pointed out about the 7 week old who died due to having the misfortune to be born to someone suffering the antivax delusion.

flirtygirl · 26/09/2016 19:44

Im not pro or anti but the bullying on this thread is horrendus. Many children have been damaged by vaacines so a parent takes a risk.

When all you parents are willing to look after someone elses disabled child and then disabled adult then and only then should vaacines be compulsory.

Herd immunity needs to equal herd caring for those disabled.

Many have no idea how many disabled persons and their carers are left up shits creek without a paddle. And many in the medical establishments deny disability until the court stage making the parents fight a battle so no i will never support compulsory vaacination.

USbound · 26/09/2016 19:45

I don't understand how people in the UK buy into the big pharma shite. In America health care is insurance based/about making money so I can kinda (very very distantly) see that some people make the link that companies want you I'll so you have to spend more money on health care. But the NHS is free at point of service, it is in debt and it is in its interest to vaccinat people to STOP them getting ill to STOP the NHS having to spend money.

Headofthehive55 · 26/09/2016 19:47

flirty absolutely

GreatFuckability · 26/09/2016 19:49

no, there aren't any magic tricks that remove all risk. so its about weighing up the risks. And those risks won't be the same for everyone. You'r experiences will influence how you perceive those risks. One of my children had a massive adverse reaction to vaccines and another a not so severe but still significant reacion, so i made the very tough decision not to vaccinate any of my children further.
And just for the record, if it came down to it and government stopped me taking my children to school if i didn't vaccinate, then I'd have to homeschool I guess, as I wont be bullied into doing something I believe dangerous to my child.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 26/09/2016 19:50

An immunocompromised person also has a choice. They have a choice of going through the gruelling treatment or die. That is the top and bottom of their choices.

Also kids who get cancer also live with relatives - parents, siblings, who have to go to work (their parents still have mortgages to pay, food to buy, don't be fooled that benefits will be enough) and go to school, what do you suggest they do? They also have to venture out of the house to get their treatment.

Headofthehive55 · 26/09/2016 19:51

yawn and that what was advised for us, when our daughter was immunicompromised. You see, not everything could be vaccinated against, so it was safer not to venture forth. I wasn't worried re measles, just a simple cold would have been enough.

GreatFuckability · 26/09/2016 19:51

excuse my typos...

randomsabreuse · 26/09/2016 19:52

Actually even if immunocompromised people don't go out and about people they are in contact with still have to. Someone has to do the shopping (is eating allowed?), they might have to go to the doctors (carer or patient). In our position (under 1 with immunocompromised parent) we limited the baby's interraction with other children and basically did sod all for 6 months. This would not be possible with an older child or in the absence of effective income protection.

Yawnyawnallday · 26/09/2016 19:52

I don't support compulsory vaccination. I think we need to take much better care of disabled people. I will not, however, agree with anyone who comes out with Bigpharma bollocks.
And I remain of the view that if you don't vaccinate your child because of conspiracy nonsense, you shouldn't get a place at a taxpayer funded school.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 26/09/2016 19:52

When all you parents are willing to look after someone elses disabled child and then disabled adult then and only then should vaacines be compulsory.

I already help a disabled child - yes he's classed as disabled because he has cancer. I'm doing it now.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 26/09/2016 19:53

Agree with Yawn

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 26/09/2016 19:55

People have to right to exercise their right to free choice but need to be mindful who their choices impact and how much.

I'm sorry but I think that's it for me with this thread, it's too close to home.

Headofthehive55 · 26/09/2016 19:56

Of course when your child is disabled , no, benefits is not enough. Yet society expects you to care for them, and yes I still had a mortgage. You can't get childcare easily, so working has to be dropped...

You have to be willing to undertake that risk as a parent.

I am pro vaccine, just not compulsion.

Caipira · 26/09/2016 20:01

The UK has an infant mortality rate of about 3 in 1000, where I live it's over 18 but that's still low compared with countries where the rate is closer to 100. I don't know anyone who doesn't vaccinate and luckily in the country I live in all vaccines are government funded. If anyone said "I don't want to vaccinate my children" people would think their brains had dropped out of their arses. The UK is now removed from the reality of disease and this is because of vaccinations. Now people are choosing to go backwards on that. That's like people choosing not to wear seatbelts anymore because less people are dying in car accidents.

Headofthehive55 · 26/09/2016 20:01

I prefer to see education, plus a contact to discuss with the child when they become an adult if they wish to be vaccinated once they can give consent. Not everyone would understand the vaccines they might have missed.

hollinhurst84 · 26/09/2016 20:24

Head - I am likely to be permanently immunosuppressed. At varying levels but the only time I know how much is when I have my bloods done every 12 weeks, and that only counts for that day
So today my count could be really low. Or it could be good. I don't know
I have to work full time, I have to shop, I have to live. This could be you or your family or your children. I didn't ask for this, I randomly developed it
I take the meds (mainly they're used for people on chemo) which have shit side effects in order to remain at a less shit level of "suppression"
Have a mortgage, I'm 32, I'm not unwell enough to get any benefits whatsoever so how could I afford to live?

BishopBrennansArse · 26/09/2016 20:26

Yawn - I am also immunocompromised and will be for the rest of my life due to having an immune system disorder and being on immunosuppressant drugs.

Which makes DD's lack of vax doubly worrying in a way.

CAB told me to go to MP. MP wrote to CCG, got nowhere then buggered off. New MP won't even respond.

Seriously I've spent years on this.

Yawnyawnallday · 26/09/2016 20:30

Bishop that was poor legal advice . You don't need CAB to tell you to write to MP. Legal advice is all I can really suggest. Try CAB again.

dybil · 26/09/2016 20:38

Yeah that's a crap analogy. By not vaccinating, you are endangering others, that's different from declining to help someone.

Not vaccinating is more like smoking. By smoking, you are endangering the health of people around you, which is why smoking gets banned from all sorts places.

PinkFondantFancy · 26/09/2016 20:40

I have a genuine question so don't shoot me down - going on the assumption that the majority of people have their childhood vaccinations, and assuming that the vaccination translates to immunity, why do people that subsequently become immune suppressed worry about whether others are spreading measles etc? Surely they already have immunity? Sorry if a stupid question....

ReallyTired · 26/09/2016 20:41

"When all you parents are willing to look after someone elses disabled child and then disabled adult then and only then should vaacines be compulsory."

Better uptake of vacinnes would reduce disablity. BSL is on the brink of extinction partly because of cochlear implants, but a more significant reason is that fewer people are born deaf and the number of people getting mengenitis is smaller. The MMR has reduced the number of disabled children overall even if a few children have been hurt by immunisation.

Polio is close to being erradicated. That used to be a major cause of death/ disability in the uk. Rubella causes terrible disablities. Mumps and measles can lead to menengitis. All these diseases cause disablities worse than autism.

PinkFondantFancy · 26/09/2016 20:43

I get that their immune system is suppressed but surely if they already have the immunity their body mounts a response? My daughter is on low dose chemo and they tested for chicken pox immunity (which you might be interested to know, the vaccine appears NOT to have given her...), but had it come back as showing immunity, they would have said not to worry about exposure to chicken pox

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