"the girls aren't naughty"

[TheSunnySide]

My son (Year 1) told me a story about something that happened in school and said it had to have been done by a certain boy because 'the girls aren't naughty'.

AIBU to think that there's something not right about perpetuating the idea that girls aren't naughty? Also the boy he mentioned seems to be scapegoated by the other children which worries me.

I used to substitute teach in a primary school and I don't think it is a fact that boy are "naughtier" than girls, just that boys have a lot more difficulty sitting still, so they get told off more.

I would be more concerned about the wee lad who is got himself a bad name.

But it is up to you, OP, to talk to your son about things.

I too think you are putting your own agenda on this.
In Yr1, your ds is making an observation based on what he has noticed, that, by and large, the girls that he is in school with every day - the girls in his class, do not, in general do things that he perceives as naughty.
You are the only one then translating that to the 'whole world' or 'whole nation' or whatever.

Also, yes, I'm afraid it's true that once a child has a reputation for "being naughty" (this might be biting or pushing or shouting or doing silly things), then dc tend to blame that child whether they are in that day or not. This happens in Nurseries all the time (when dc are often in for only some of the days). Why on earth would you assume this has come from the teacher ? . IME, staff spend a LOT of time dispelling myths that children perpetuate.

At no point did he say 'the girls in my class are not naughty.'

Like I say, the response to 'why do you think it was (boys name)' was odd IMO. Why the leap to what all girls in the school are or are not when I was asking him about why he felt that about a specific child. Him saying 'because (child's name) is always naughty' makes more sense.

But then he is five and apparently I am over thinking and have my own agenda so Ho hum.

Your post strikes a chord with me OP :)

I've noticed a tendency for DS to say some things that, in an older child/ adults, would be sexist generalisations, and it's quite a moment to hear statements that don't fit with your own home coming out of your child's mouth!

It's happened quite a few times with DS over the years, from 3yrs when he started nursery to now, at 6yrs. From my own experience/ observations, I think it's a combination of cultural immersion and DS's own desire to make sense of the world.

Sadly, even from a young age they are surrounded by culture, and our culture does indeed have many (subtle and loud) messages about gender, class, race, sexuality, body image etc etc

It's shocking how easily even strong family teaching and values gets ejected in favour of sexist stuff like... (DS age 4: Dont be silly mummy, boys can't play with girls, 'girls don't play, they just sit and talk about purple bracelets and butterflies' (observation sadly, and turns out someone had been letting him watch adverts...).

Makes me realise again and again that you cannot get complacent, and messages have to be taught again and again, as they grow, and they need our help to connect our values and their observations or other people's commentary eg girls and boys are exactly the same... Except at DS school no girls are in construction club, so he needs help to make sense of that.

And lastly, the rule seeking! DS loves to make sense of the world around him by seeing something then trying it out as a 'rule'. I find it fascinating, as his world becomes bigger and wider. It's like watching a proto scientist, or ethnographer at work in a new world :) I also see it gives him a sense of comfort that the world makes sense, even though some of the rules he's trying out in his head don't exactly work for me!

Eg Rob is always naughty... So it's robs fault all the time (when Rob has got SNs and isn't actually being naughty)

Or girls are always good etc.

It helps to challenge or confirm those 'rules' he sees, and look for examples to show its not quite right when his rule is one I don't want sticking around!

If your agenda is an enquiring mind and a determination to help your DC grow up seeing men and women as equals... Then sign me up!

If your agenda is killing kittens, then, a little less interested

At no point did he say 'the girls in my class are not naughty.
Was he not talking about the girls in his class when he said
said it had to have been done by a certain boy because 'the girls aren't naughty'.

I think it's likely that his perception is that naughty people are told off more.

In a school situation he may have observed that boys are more likely to have difficulty following the rules and more likely to be told off.

There may be all sorts of reasons for this, but it doesn't follow that somebody has told him that boys are naughty.

Boys are naughtier than girls though if you look at the crime statistics.

I think it's only naughtiness in specific environments that boys are more likely to exhibit than girls - classroom and 'the law' being the ones that come to mind. Girls are conditioned from babyhood that it's the nice polite thing to do to conform, not make a fuss and be 'good'. They are taught that's they way to get on in life and make people like them. Boys don't absorb that amenable, submissive message as they are steered more towards power and leadership. (That sounds horribly feminist and man hating written down and I'm not normally like that at all but it's the only way I can really make sense of a difference that shouldn't be there by biology).

In the home and socially I don't think those differences are as strong. I've just taken a year group of 9 year olds on a residential, thinking they were a fairly good year group. The girls in particular never give any trouble in the classroom at all. Hah! - an extended sleepover at 5am was a very, very different story! The girls were every bit as much of a pain as the boys.

Boys can be incredibly "bitchy" and mean. My dd has unusual hair (she's 10 now). Only ever been boys unpleasant about it never girls.

It's not right, gender has nothing to do with a child's behaviour.

It does. Obviously it's not true that girls are never naughty but they tend to be less obvious about it.

And I agree Kerala boys can be verbally nasty too.

So a boy was blamed, even though he probably didn't do it, and it was in the girl's toilets...

the girls should have been at least under some suspicion but because girls aren't naughty, some boy got the blame anyway. And it turns out it probably was a girl, but the boy who has been naughty in the past will always be blamed first because he has been naughty in the past.

Yes totally agree OP. There are some pretty 'funny' fuckers on here these days.

I do get what you're saying, op, and think it could be an interesting thing to consider. However I do wonder whether in this situation, your son had just missed out a stage of his logic in explaining it to you.

So you asked why x and he said because girls aren't naughty. Perhaps he was thinking something like this:
It happened in the girls toilets but the girls aren't naughty, so it couldn't have been a girl.
Therefore it was a boy. Only one boy in my class is naughty, so it must have been x. Something like that?

What would happen if you asked why it couldn't have been a, b, c,or d? (All boys)?
Is it possible that he'd reply because they aren't naughty?

I would suggest that rather than boys being naughty, it is that girls are easier to manage from a teacher's pov.

My 7yo DS is in the 'naughty boy gang'. They are "naughty" because they have too much energy, run around the playground like mad things, whip each other up into frenzies and then are slow to do what they are told. My 10yo DD has always been labelled as "good". She plays in small groups,relatively quietly, and generally follows rules, as do most of her (girl)friends. She is frustrated by the boy/girl seating, as 'all the boys mess around'.

At home DS and DD are equally easy/difficult in different ways, but i certainly wouldn't say one was naughtier than the other. I think it is just that the rules and expectations of school, in general, suits DD and her girlfriend's better.

My daughter deliberately flooded the (unisex) toilets at nursery. Many adjectives can be used to describe her. Spirited, kind, caring, loving, bright, energetic, thoughtful, engaging, funny, artistic and very frequently naughty!

RaspberryIce - no he was talking about the girls in the two reception and the two year one classes.

By the way. Someone said something about boys walloping each other and then getting over it quickly.

Personally I think that is a damaging thing to treat as a norm. If my son was being walloped by other kids in school I would expect a bit more than boys will be boys and they get over it. Similarly if my daughter was suffering from 'bitchy' long drawn out grudge holding I would wan that dealt with effectively too.

I completely get what you mean op. I hate the "boys will be boys" "cheeky monkey" "here comes trouble" stuff. It's self-perpetuating and comes from a worrying socialisation where girls are expected to be sweet and pliable; boys are expected to be rough and rowdy. It may manifest in small ways but it extrapolates to adulthood in terms of relationships, career choices and self esteem.

It can also come as a shock when you have done all you can to instil good attitudes in your dc and they bring stuff home from nursery or school that is very hard to overcome. I recently talked to my 3-yr-old's nursery teacher about how his social skills were getting on and she said almost conspiratorially, he plays with the girls as though it was something really weird (it transpired he had sat with 3 girls in book corner) - things he has said back up this very early foray into division of the sexes, courtesy of nursery school.

That was my post about boys punching each other and if you read it properly you will see that at no point did I say it was accepted as the norm. It was an observation. Bad behaviour by both genders is dealt with firmly and swiftly.

I don't know where you get the idea that schools are perpetuating this sexist "boys will be boys" attitude. In my experience, you're more likely to hear it in the wider community. Schools are trying to deal with it.