Aibu to think that "suspended adulthood" is going to lead to large problems?

[BlancheBlue]

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/22/young-people-living-in-a-suspended-adulthood-finds-research

Just this really. There was a telling comment about this article with the ever increasing age profile of parents the chance of children knowing grandparents is going to be remote.

I think lots of the boomer generation really fail to understand this. Whenever it is said it is tough for young people que loads of "well I worked my arse off and owned a house by the time I was 21" type comments.

A ban on people owning more houses that they can live in
dont hold your breath, many conservative MPs are landlords, these turkeys arent going to vote for christmas any time soon

bibbitybobbityyhat it depends what you mean by an average wage. I put a couple earning £25000 each into a mortgage calculator and it said they could borrow between £125k and £175k.

If you went for a realistic wage, rather than your idea of average, then I put my husband and my wages in and got a figure of £62.5k to £88k that we would be able to borrow. So for your £130000 house, we would need a deposit of at least £42k.

I feel like I am shouting into a vacuum here when it comes to real peoples' wages. People who work in retail, hospitality, healthcare, manufacturing and many other sectors do not earn average wages!

yes it depends what kind of average you are using
mean median or mode?

There is no need to shout at me, I have a good grasp of the huge problems faced by people in expensive areas in terms of trying to get on the housing ladder. However, I doubt it was ever the norm for a couple both on below average wages to buy a 3 bed house as their first property. When I bought in 1988 it was a small 2 bed flat bought with a friend. We earned around national average wage at the time. We were 27.

Ah well, what did they think centuries of waging every type of war on us and with us , physical and economic, would lead to? Why should the powers that be worry about us being responsible adults when they've treated us so carelessly? We've bought and had kids ... I'm under no illusion that they would knick it all again if they could.

The median wage, ie where half earn less and half earn more, is around £19/20k. The mean average wage of around £27k is massively skewed by a small number of very high earners most of whom are on here thinking £100k+ salaries are normal and doesn't make them well off.

First time buyers often need 3 bed houses because they are in their 30s or 40s and have children. In some areas flats aren't cheaper anyway.

I do think the economics shows it's now much harder for people in late 20s to buy in london and south east than it was in the 1990s. - nothing to do with coffee! It is interesting (and encouraging!) to know that it is very different in other parts of uk.

And once you have dc it's much harder to save, so yes that may mean that long term this 20s generation has a much lower proportion of owner occupiers. That will be a financial problem when they retire - i suggested on another thread maybe there will be more pensioners living with their adult dc.
I read a pp on that other thread which struck me - while there is such high demand for rentals in london and se, any real increase in wages or salaries will just lead to higher rents. Lls will charge what people can and will pay, and there is so much competition for rented property that pay rises will in effect go to lls rather than enabling people to save. Not sure how true that is - many 20s do currently have some disposable income which is not snaffled into rent. But to the extent that it is true, the only solution is either rent controls (and v interesting to read about the problems of those in sweden up thread) or more social housing - in effect another form of rent control. or, try to reduce demand by encouraging businesses to move to the regions, move even more government functions to the regions - probablyy won't have a huge effect but might improve things slightly.

Not RTFT. While I think it probably right that today's young have it harder than my generation in terms of buying (we first bought in 1986), there are other less doleful differences. In 1986 one incentive to buy was that mortgages were cheaper than renting (deposits could be 0 though), in part because of tax subsidies (MIRAS). The rental market was restricted because of rent control. in my last rented place, the roof fell in a month after I left, because of the landlady's total neglect. When there, I had no heating and occasional hot water. Finding places to rent was difficult, because of the rented sector being so heavily regulated (rent control). It was the Housing Act 1996 - which cut the last vestiges of rent control - which created the modern booming rental market.

I worked in the property industry (in London) and saw very many rented properties through work, and they were all varying degrees of absolute shite. It was a major incentive to save like stink to buy a place. Our first home was in the east of London, miles (and hours) from anyone we knew or were related to (and was a small flat). We did it because we wanted to escape renting (v.s.). The market then was widely perceived as skewed because of the lack of decent rented property. The rueful comments on this thread could have been lifted from 1986 - plus ca change. The biggest difference seems to have been that credit was more restricted in the 1980s, so it was nigh impossible to borrow more than three times joint salaries. That had a naturally cooling effect on house prices.

I'm not saying that today's young have it easy by comparison, just that from my own experience the problem of buying your own home has always been a difficult problem, requiring compromises in many areas - location, suitability etc. We deferred having kids for years because of the housing problems (and as others have noted, interest rates were MUCH higher in the '80s ad '90s than they are now: our first property consumed over 50% of our joint post tax income).

Yes, it is tough for the young today, but that doesn't mean it was easy peasy for the young of yesterday. I think buying somewhere is tough for most of us - always was, always will be. Possibly a little easier nowadays, as there is more possibility of substantial inheritances from parents/grandparents who owned property!

Where we used to live, new build 2 bed flats went for the same price as our 3 bed house with a garden. Flats are not cheaper.

Rent caps are not the answer unless there is significant legislation to force landlords to update properties.
We have rent caps in Sweden. The wait for housing in central Stockholm is 25 fucking years
The rental sector here is a mess. Rent caps don't work

Galdos yes you're right each generation has had its problems - the anti boomer threads always seem to forget the unemployment of early thatcher years, early 1990s repossessions etc. I think one specific problem now is the amount of money available to be funnelled into housing - cheap credit, inheritance, overseas investors, hb, far more multi-adult rental households who can afford higher total rent, have i missed anything? While demand exceeds supply, that will continue to keep housing costs high in london and se.

I do see the point about not wanting to leave friends and family - i think it can be very hard even if you don't have dc, rely on family childcare etc. For me, if i had been in that position the idea of working all my life in order to buy assets for a private landlord would have been enough to make me move somewhere cheaper in the uk to buy my own - if that was financially viable. I can see that others would have different priorities though.

That is interesting about sweden hubble - and then who allocates the housing? Is it purely length of time on waiting list, or are there other criteria like priority occupations such as health workers?

I suppose the question is what would happen without rent control in sweden - presumably rents and house prices in central stockholm would rocket, as they have done in london, and then housing would be allocated to the richest? Or the swedish equivalent of housing benefit would also have to increase massively to enable lower income people to continue to live there.
There doesn't seem to be an easy solution. Even tax disincentives for owning more than one property are tricky because of the effect on house prices in other parts of uk where some people have only recently got out of negative equity. but i do think measures to spread economic activity out over the regions would be beneficial in many ways, not just in terms of housing costs.

It's not just in London and SE. It really, really isn't. It's a national problem.

Even people willing to move elsewhere in the U.K. (and I've lived in four different areas, none of them anywhere near the SE), you still can't buy if you can't get a hefty deposit together in the first place.

Very well put, shiningexple.

^Nauseating examples of attribution theory in action on this thread.

All the good stuff in my life are the result of my hard work, noble values, self sacrifice, and commitment.

All the bad things in your life are because you are shiftless, selfish, and grasping. ^

Very well said.

Very interesting thread. I think we would all wish for people to be able to afford to buy or rent as they choose in an area that suits them.
Salaries are way out of whack with house prices but if mortgage rates remain super low then the affordability of buying now vs the 80s or 90s is more comparable. I totally applaud gardengeek and Pluto and the son and dil who can plaster (!) for their focused attitudes to buying a home, deciding what they need to do to make it happen and putting it into practice.
Young people need to plan and sacrifice to own a home. It was more or less ever thus. I did the whole charity shop wardrobe, no holidays, stork margarine thing for years to save and invest in a home and its paid off. I know a small number of people who have taken the credit card route because "life is for living" : decades on they are still living more or less hand to mouth.
Things have changed massively in the uk and globally over the past few generations and no one knows what's round the corner, we just have to do the best we can to plan for our families and vote or campaign for the changes we want to see. Planning is key imo.

Just read guardian article which I prob should have done first of course it's a worry! Life is a series of worries, we need to teach our kids the resilience and skills to cope with them. Real world financial planning skills taught in schools would be a good start.

Possibly a little easier nowadays, as there is more possibility of substantial inheritances from parents/grandparents who owned property!

Unless of course you're silly and feckless enough to be born into a family who'll be leaving you fuck all, of course.

Young people need to plan and sacrifice to own a home. It was more or less ever thus. I did the whole charity shop wardrobe, no holidays, stork margarine thing for years to save and invest in a home and its paid off.

Sigh. There are two particularly significant problems with this point:

1. It wasn't ever thus. The appropriate comparison is with the last couple of generations in any case, not 'ever'. We presumably all know that if you go back a century or so most of us were living on snot and coal, but we should be aspiring to something slightly more than that as a society.

1. The charity shop wardrobe, margarine lifestyle to buy a house you speak of is not even accessible for a lot of people. As this thread should have made very clear, large swathes of society simply won't ever be able to get a mortgage however far they tighten their belts. It is not simply a question of prioritising. As such, saying it was always hard I had to give up treats for a few years is a completely inadequate analysis.

Young people need to plan and sacrifice to own a home. It was more or less ever thus. I did the whole charity shop wardrobe, no holidays, stork margarine thing for years to save and invest in a home and its paid off

Except that in 1996 I bought a two bedroom flat in a nurses salary of less thank £30k all by myself. The flat was £42k and was in the south east.

Today I could not buy that same flat on a nurses salary....they sell for upwards of £160k. Average nurses salary around £30k if full time and if above a certain pay grade.

I already shop in charity shops (actually eBay as charity shops are too expensive) have a 15 year old car, cut my own hair, have about 3 costa cup of teas a year, I do have a smart phone it's paid for by work. I don't drink, I don't smoke. My food bill is £0.55p a day for breakfast and lunch. Dinner costs are negligible
I still haven't been able to save £50,000 I need.
Must be feckless somewhere

Possibly a little easier nowadays, as there is more possibility of substantial inheritances from parents/grandparents who owned property!

And the people who aren't lucky enough to have large inheritances - they should just put up and shut up in your opinion?

This just highlights the problem those without wealthy parents to help are often fucked

Possibly a little easier nowadays, as there is more possibility of substantial inheritances from parents/grandparents who owned property!

I suspect she meant that as the perceived wisdom seems to hold that all Boomers are home owners then their grandkids will all get cash when they die!

And the rest of your post sounds incredibly bitter and nonsenical!

Much like the rest of the media fuelled 'Boomer Hate'.

And yes, I know dons flame retardent suit and hustles her non boomer self and her parents non existant saleable home/assets out of reach!

My parents are not uni-educated nor do they own a house of their own. My grandparents and Nan however are really wealthy and own their houses outright.

I crave security and have left sixth form, and am working 40 hours a week and saving half of my wages to put towards a deposit on a house. It's going to take me about 2 years of savings. All of my friends are going out drinking/partying and go on expensive holidays, but I would rather get a house first and some sort of assets, then I will treat myself to holidays and all that jazz.

Inheritance isn't guaranteed, it could be given to the care home to pay for care fees. It could be left to the cats home. It could be left to your sibling /aunt/ uncle.
Inheritance is not a guarantee.
I've actually said to my parents to skip me in the will and pass it on to my children, it seems sensible to give them the boost. But I've also nursed grand parents to know it will probably have to go on to care home fees.

A lot of older people seem to not realise quite how much things have changed for the younger generation and put this down to lazyness and unwillingness to sacrifice things..when its not always the case.

My grandfather used to ask me (at 18) when I was going to buy my first house as he bought his at 20 and paid outright for it with money he saved from his wage for a year. He didn't 'go out' or have any luxuries for a year and could buy a house. He didn't seem to understand that on my wage (12k a year) even cutting out essential buying and having the whole 12k I could not buy a house, in any sense of the word. For years he went on about how if I just sacrificed luxuries I could own my own home.

On the other hand my grandmother (funnily enough who had never worked more than part time as my grandfathers wage was enough to support her) was absolutely aghast that I was working round the clock and had not found a 'man to support me'. A woman should not be working her hands to the bone to survive. Again she didn't seem to understand that thats not how things work at all.

Yet again my grandfather, when I was around 19 and lost my job due to the business closing..could not understand how it took (A WHOLE) 2 weeks to find another job and said I was just being lazy and if I wanted to work I could, I just liked 'being on DSS'