to wish the changes on tax credits had of gone through

[madhurjazz]

They would of affected 1/5th of people on tax credits and that would of caused some issues in the short term so maybe some more help to transition was needed. But since that tax credits sad face woman on question time that was claiming them to run a salon in her lounge they u turned.

This has just resulted in cuts from other areas and not stopped the cuts at all.

Tax credits and housing benefit maybe a good idea for people in the short term. But many people are being long term subsidised and the main beneficiaries are the employers who get away with paying less and making more profits.

I'll probably get flamed for this but how can this country carry on racking up the debt? Its just going to create a greater financial burden on the future generations.

I fail to see the funny side Malice, especially having been one of the people driven to the brink.

I'm honestly struggling to see how my proposal would disadvantage anyone though (honestly)

I think the idea of collecting an insurance policy of sorts up-front against defaulting on the cost of raising a child is pretty sensible, but ultimately a private matter.

In the case of university fees and CSA, the former is a financial contract (loan), the state being a counterparty; and the latter hinges on reproductive freedoms.

Which is why I think it's fascist. Unless it's voluntary, of course (still vaguely fascist) and then all the problematic non-resident parents would still opt out.

As I said, it's a good idea but ultimately a private matter.

But (to my mind) the current student loan system helps those (wrongly in my opinion - but that's for another day) who want a degree get one. Nobody is penalised because they don't earn enough, or are doing a micky-mouse degree.

I get what you're saying in that it's slightly fascist, but it wouldn't be the 'default option'

It would only come into play where parents couldn't/wouldn't agree between themselves. If set hand in glove with wage reforms etc., I think it could be useful.

Children don't go without in the present, and parents know that only have to pay it back when they're able.

The right wing libertarians can only offer vague statements of 'its not fair, is it?' but no workable suggestions for how to improve the core problems.

The situation in the USA shows how they would like things to be run. 'the poor are Them, fuck the poor.' Go on, pretend thats not a fascist utopia.

But what are the suggestions from the left?

To start at the top (the root cause of the problem) and overhaul the system from there down without condemning the most vulnerable to a life of fear and control.

Given we need less state interference not more, malice, which is how we got here in the first place. My own mother announced she didn't see why my brother should pay child support because his ex gets benefits anyway. When did that view become acceptable ? What we kind of need is the state to step back so if the absent parent doesn't pay the kids do suffer and it becomes shameful not to pay, God knows how that's done in a humane way though. Or some sort of effective system where you phone a hotline when you split up, you give your ex's NI or driving licence or passport details and bingo up pops all his tax details and they deduct cs from source day one, that's just how it is, no pissing around with private arrangements.

It's seldom that simple though.

I guess it depends on what you think the 'problem' is I guess.

As I said previously although I don't think the 'question' was ever clearly defined, I'm not sure Tax Credits were/are the answer.

Reproductive systems?
I was married and we planned our child but that didn't stop him becoming abusive and violent. Or me having to run and then pick up the pieces.

PortiaCastis same position as I was. Married, planned baby, both working FT. I lost everything, my home, my job, my sanity and had to pick up the pieces and start again for my son. If I hadn't had him, I'd be dead by now.

The problem is a combination as it usually is, big business not paying taxes, employers not paying living wages, if they can't afford to then they have not got a viable business and back to the drawing board. The you look at broken families. I genuinely wonder what those in power do all bloody day because I think Mumsnet could have this fixed in under a fortnight from start to finish.

Every single mum I've met was with her child's father for at least 2 years before kids, I wasn't but we were married 10 years

Or some sort of effective system where you phone a hotline when you split up, you give your ex's NI or driving licence or passport details and bingo up pops all his tax details and they deduct cs from source day one, that's just how it is, no pissing around with private arrangements.

I'm pretty sure this is how it works in the US. Very sensible. Of course, they don't fuck around with any sort of court judgements there - your dog attacks someone and you don't have insurance, your wages will be garnished.

I absolutely agree with you pissssed

From you mother/brother's point of view, he's paying twice. Once through the taxes which pay the benefits, and again. I sort of get that.

Where we diverge is that I don't believe that the children should suffer (even in the short-term) My idea (I think) solves the absent-parent issue. where is goes beyond yours is that it allows the state to step in as a last resort where parents' earnings are insufficient.

I agree we need less state involvement, but sadly, that's not happening.

Posting again as this company received £75million from the government to make people suffer. Please read!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37427990

Well Is he fuck paying twice, he's not paying at all and that seems to be acceptable to everyone except me - but he takes them out every other weekend and buys them clothes so that's ok 😕
It's all wrong. We seem to copy everything else from the USA despite them having no actual economy aside of war mongering and yet the one thing they seem to have right we don't want to know about. Madness

"less state involvement"

Shall we cut the £98 billion that we pay in subsidies and tax breaks to corporations then?

That's where we should make the start, not by hitting the poor first.

Pisssed To be honest, we decided some time ago that the State would make better fathers for many of our kids.

I think a lot of the issue is in the fact that these blokes (and it's usually men) don't live in isolation on an island somewhere. They're the husbands, sons, partners, brothers of all of us.

My nieces didn't starve to death as a result of their parents' fecklessness.

Mumsnet should really get behind a campaign (I've said this before) but there seems to be more interest in which toilets transsexual use.

Completely agree. I'd start off the campaign myself but I realise I'd be labelled a hairy arsed man hater and never get a date again by the time the daily mail had finished with me - I don't suppose they are reading this thread are they ?

Well I never. I'd never heard of Concentrix before (thanks Portia) so I've done some digging, because tax credits took £2500 off DPs wages in 4 months last year citing an overpayment we were sure hadn't happened and we were stunned when we suddenly became ineligible for tax credits this year as we earn below the threshold. I did a calculation and apparently we should be getting £230 a week!!!! I've also raised the £2500 with our local MP who is challenging the government over cripplingly high muck ups in our area resulting in families being forced below the breadline.

aye Glad to have been of help, hope you get things sorted out
.smallfox I was told by the OP on Friday that playing the Google card was shutting down debate.

Thanks Portia me too! I'm raging now that we've been fucked over and talked to like shite when I knew we hadn't been overpaid!!! DP works 60-80 hours a week so we're OK financially and the thought that we've been forced into financial problems by these bastards boils my blood! What if families aren't in a position to take on extra hours or can't work at all? It's absolutely disgusting!!!

I hope a journo dies read this thread, there are things that need to be addressed.
Concentrix
Demonising people that need help
Absent Fathers
Domestic violence
Google and Amazon
Tax breaks
Inequality
Shall I go on?
There are people living in poverty in this the 5th richest Country in the world.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32812601

Have you considered being a politician OP? It sounds like you have the right frame of mind for it.

*does not dies