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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think in certain cases Csa should be taken into account

119 replies

ChelleU · 18/09/2016 13:41

This is mainly in regards to two people I know but it got me thinking about why Csa is not included as income when claiming benefits. Now I'm not dense, I realise that the main reason is for absent fathers who disappear or try and get out of paying. In these cases fair enough. But when there is doubt about whether or not the individuals involved are a still a couple then I think something needs to be done, and that they deduct the Csa off of the mother's/father's benefits.

A person who I classed as a friend (she no longer is) is, in my opinion cheating the system but she's played it clever. The father of her children who she's been in a relationship with for years now technically lives at his father's house. I say technically because whilst he may be registered on the electoral roll and leaves his belongings there he still sleeps at her house almost every night, they spend time together as a couple, and it's pretty much business as before.

Another person I know (dh cousin) has five children, refuses to work and keeps finding loopholes not to work ie claiming carer's allowance even though she doesn't do much carIng, spacing her kids out purposely so she can stay on income support. Now that she has split up with the father of her kids (genuinely split as far as I know) she still refuses to get a job because the amount in benefits she receives plus the very generous amount of Csa from the father of her kids means that she lives a very cushy lifestyle.

Aibu to think that in cases like these were it's questionable whether the individuals are still a couple, or were the person refuses to work even though they could, the Csa should count as income and be deducted from benefits directly or payments reduced over time.

OP posts:
NeedsAsockamnesty · 18/09/2016 15:08

So you think your not really friend should be forced to live with a bloke she obviously does not wish to actually live with because her situation offends you?

Because that's what you saying.

She does not live with him and nothing you have said indicates she is in a relationship that meets the criteria to be considered as LTAHAW

deranged13 · 18/09/2016 15:08

Shirley I also swore. It doesn't offend me. But belittling, sneering and mocking someone because they don't share your opinion is crappy and aggressive. As it goes, I agree with your points, rather than the OP. Just not the way they are expressed. But each to their own.

Original poster
ChelleU · 18/09/2016 15:08

Sorry, yes we get tax credits. A very small amount each month, but again, how is this relevant?

OP posts:
ShirleyKnotReboot · 18/09/2016 15:09

Where are all this one day a week jobs?

Who gets to decide when something is 'suspicious'?

Have you read the news about Concentrix, the company employed by the government to cut the tax credit bill? They do this by stopping claims and then asking questions - leaving people in grave financial circumstances?

Money collected from NRP is for the children - why should they suffer? What on earth are you saying? Can you hear yourself? It's horrible.

ssd · 18/09/2016 15:09

I'd never report anyone for benefit fraud as the mums I knew who did it are the sort to always put themselves first and it would the kids going without when the money was cut, not the parent

wrong, I know, but there it is

ShirleyKnotReboot · 18/09/2016 15:11

Oh, deranged. I don't give a shit. HTH.

Original poster
ChelleU · 18/09/2016 15:12

Forced to live with someone she doesn't want to live with really. This isn't a new relationship, she's been with this man, the father of her children for years. For what it's worth I think the idea that a single parent who takes up a new relationship should be forced to move in with that person purely for financial reasons is ridiculous.

OP posts:
SharonfromEON · 18/09/2016 15:13

I don't know what it is with Mn this weekend..This is the 3rd thread I have read about why NRP shouldn't just pay legal minimum...

I am wondering why there are no threads about why NRP aren't stepping up to the plate when so many don't even pay the legal minimum.

deranged13 · 18/09/2016 15:13

Shirley that's very clear. Hope you're not as condescending in real life.

JenLindleyShitMom · 18/09/2016 15:14

or were a resident parent refuses to work (say at least one day a week)

Didn't you say she has 5 children? You also said she has them spaced out so I'm guessing at least 1 child is pre school age. Why does she have to work "at least" one day a week and put her child into childcare (and the rest into afterscho care) to come home with zero money left to show for her efforts, that would affect her income support and she wouldn't be entitled to any childcare element of tax credits (as not meeting the 16 hours criteria)? What sense does any of that make? Just so she can prove to you (who pays fuck all towards her benefits) that she deserves her benefits? Are you serious?

Original poster
ChelleU · 18/09/2016 15:14

I haven't seen these other threads your talking about so don't tar me with the same brush.

OP posts:
Original poster
ChelleU · 18/09/2016 15:16

Lots of single parents work and put their kids into childcare, me included so why can't she?

OP posts:
Original poster
ChelleU · 18/09/2016 15:17

I never said I paid anything towards her benefits. Did I?

OP posts:
lalalalyra · 18/09/2016 15:19

Neither case you've mention actually have anything to do with the rules around maintenance.

The friend you mention isn't 'playing the system'. If she's doing exactly what you say (and I say if becuase often we don't know half as much as we think about other people) then she's committing benefit fraud. There are rules around that and if she is committing fraud then you should report her, rather than suggest the rules be changed for other people.

In the second the issue is with someone choosing children as a lifestyle. Again, that's more to do with the system as it is at the moment than the maintenance issue. With the new two children rule with tax credits it won't be half as enticing for people to do that.

You can't possible take CSA into account in "certain" cases - who would decide which cases were worthy of their maintenance and benefits and which weren't?

And you can't, imo, take maintenance into account at all whilst the CSA/CMS/government have such a lack of interest in taking parents who fail to pay to task.

ShirleyKnotReboot · 18/09/2016 15:19

We've been subjected to years of this sort of shit on MN - but we must remember to play nicely and not be "too aggressive"

Because the sort of people who say this sort of offensive shit and who have tuned right into the whole "Lone parents are money grasping parasites" and "people in benefits should just GET A JOB" don't actually deserve my respect.

And yes, I am this condescending IRL.

JenLindleyShitMom · 18/09/2016 15:21

I'm a single parent who puts their children into childcare. I also know how hard it is to find a job and childcare as a single parent (for two children, let alone 5!) that makes working not only possible but financially worthwhile and yea, when you have 5 children to feed and clothe it has to be financially worthwhile. I spent 10 months in my current job working 12 hours a week, paying the childminder out of my wages with no entitlement to working tax credits or childcare element on the promise of getting a 16 hour contract (which has finally appeared thank god!) it sucks ass. It was really hard financially and if that 16 hour contract hadn't been dangled infront of me like a carrot I would have given up long ago because it just not worth it. Unfortunately I know how rare it is to be as lucky as i have been.

Babynamechange · 18/09/2016 15:22

shirleyKnotReboot you're my new hero! Smile

JenLindleyShitMom · 18/09/2016 15:23

never said I paid anything towards her benefits. Did I?

No, which is why she has to prove nothing to you by working "at least" 1 day a week.

PortiaCastis · 18/09/2016 15:25

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/unclaimed_benefits

MrsDeVere · 18/09/2016 15:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

deranged13 · 18/09/2016 15:28

Totally agree! Like I said, Tory fat cats who think it's ok to cut benefits to those who really need them - scarily worrying. But laughing and sneering at one person for the fault of a nation of these people is crap.

Anyway. Enough of this. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Meeep · 18/09/2016 15:30

Ugh. Just imagine sitting next to somene like this OP at a dinner party.

AyeAmarok · 18/09/2016 15:31

Right, so because are jealous of the lifestyle of one person who you think is fraudulently claiming benefits, you want to make all the lone parent women who rely on benefits to feed and house their children because their ex-partners pay either a pittance or no maintenance at all towards their children (and this is the majority, by the way, stats upthread and all over many other threads this weekend) be up shit creek financially because they then could get no benefits and no maintenance, all so your friend doesn't annoy you by bragging about designer clothes?

Sledgehammer and nut springs to mind.

PortiaCastis · 18/09/2016 15:33

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_fraud_in_the_United_Kingdom
Facts are there if you look for them

lazymum99 · 18/09/2016 15:33

neither of these cases has anything to do with CSA. The first one is possibly committing benefit fraud and the system will catch her soon enough if she keeps bragging about it. The second case is someone who has chosen to use the system. Although having 5 children and doing some caring for a disabled relative (all on benefits) doesn't sound much fun to me.
The unreliability of CSM as an income precludes it from being deducted from benefits. It would result in more admin errors, greater costs and more lone parents using food banks.