To think in certain cases Csa should be taken into account

[ChelleU]

This is mainly in regards to two people I know but it got me thinking about why Csa is not included as income when claiming benefits. Now I'm not dense, I realise that the main reason is for absent fathers who disappear or try and get out of paying. In these cases fair enough. But when there is doubt about whether or not the individuals involved are a still a couple then I think something needs to be done, and that they deduct the Csa off of the mother's/father's benefits.

A person who I classed as a friend (she no longer is) is, in my opinion cheating the system but she's played it clever. The father of her children who she's been in a relationship with for years now technically lives at his father's house. I say technically because whilst he may be registered on the electoral roll and leaves his belongings there he still sleeps at her house almost every night, they spend time together as a couple, and it's pretty much business as before.

Another person I know (dh cousin) has five children, refuses to work and keeps finding loopholes not to work ie claiming carer's allowance even though she doesn't do much carIng, spacing her kids out purposely so she can stay on income support. Now that she has split up with the father of her kids (genuinely split as far as I know) she still refuses to get a job because the amount in benefits she receives plus the very generous amount of Csa from the father of her kids means that she lives a very cushy lifestyle.

Aibu to think that in cases like these were it's questionable whether the individuals are still a couple, or were the person refuses to work even though they could, the Csa should count as income and be deducted from benefits directly or payments reduced over time.

Exactly, there are loopholes and some people certainly take advantage of them. My dh's cousin gets a hefty amount of Csa but also gets free school meals saving her a lot each month, and she got her ds's school holiday for free (it was around £500!).

Obviously you're referring to me. I have poor spelling, punctuation and grammar because I have a mild form dyslexia. But don't let that stop you slagging me off!

Paying childcare for 5 kids would far exceed what most people can earn.

Aaaargh - why am I engaging in this shite...

She went down the Csa route telling them that her ex refused to pay Csa but it's a total lie. This was done I believe so it looked like a genuine split. Like I said she's very clever. Why would she need to go down the Csa route at all when he is at her house most nights, they go off on family days out etc.

This makes no sense. "Going down the CSA route" means her ex/boyfriend has to give her money. Which if they haven't even split up would probably piss him off, wouldn't it. CSA payments don't come from the state, they come from the father. Directly.

Benefits come from the state. So if what you're saying is correct, she's committing benefit fraud, but it's absolutely nothing to do with Child Maintenance.

HTH.

They're not all nursery age though. I paid out for full time nursery places for two children which was expensive, but the cost of morning/after school clubs are far less.

What is with this mad obsession with everything being 'fair'? Sorry to break it to ya, but LIFE is NOT fair. Ever.

Are you angry about the statistics I quoted earlier? Do you think THAT'S fair?

Are you angry that disabled people are literally killing themselves because they are living in such grinding poverty? Is that fair?

Are you angry that the richest people in this country have access to top class accountants who can work out where all the loopholes are to ensure they pay the very least amount of tax possible?

Are you angry that our media have a VESTED INTEREST in keeping the 'lower orders' fighting over the crumbs - pointing out their friends to the government to stop their benefits as an example - because the media owners are extremely wealthy and would like to keep the status quo.

You've drunk the Kool Aid.

Anyone, men or women, who don't pay / act responsibly towards their children are deplorable.

It's pretty shitty being a single parent. It's hard work, especially if you don't get maintenance. I know, because I've been there.

Occasionally though, you do get people - resident parents - who do take the piss. It's not the norm, but it does happen.

It's hard to police. I get it.

I think it's important to see that sometimes (occasionally?) there is more than one way to see a situation.
It's fairly crappy to criticise people's grammar and intelligence because they offer a different opinion. Maybe their situation is different to yours? Maybe there are extenuating circumstances that you know nothing of?

By the way, I am a member of the Labour Party - and I've spell checked this - here's hoping!

I know that they come directly from the father, but he gives her money anyway so I don't see how it would piss him off. He may have the money deducted from his bank account but it goes back into the family unit. I honestly wish I could explain in more detail how sneaky and manipulative she is but it would be difficult to go into more detail without outing myself. I will say though that she is relentless, money obsessed and if she sets her mind to something she'll make it happen.

loads of people take the piss out of the benefit system, I have known a fair few who do this and whenever its mentioned on MN it seems like a taboo subject

what pisses me of is that whilst they are taking the piss and cashing in on lies told, someone somewhere is going without as there is less money in the pot

but interestingly, the number of people who take the piss is way fewer than the number of people who dont even claim benefits, there is a graph somewhere to show this dont know where

What difference does it make to your life though? Hee-fucking-haw.

You obviously don't like her so just cut her out of your life. Then you won't get so wound up by all her children's designer clothes and gadgets.

I know exactly how shit it can be to be a single parent, don't forget I was one myself. This is why I had to distance myself from my friend and our friendship as i couldn't take all the lies and her making a mockery out of genuine parents doing it alone.

It's fairly crappy to criticise people's grammar and intelligence because they offer a different opinion.

I'd say it's an extremely crappy thing to do...

It's fine deranged. I may have poor Spag but it hasn't held me back in my career as I've had appropriate help and proper resources available to me since I was young.

yes, best to keep a distance then, if your friend can still look herself in the mirror knowing shes taking money that isnt hers and making someone genuine go without, then she isnt much of a person

Look the benefit fraud is one thing, but the fact that he gives her CSA is totally irrelevant. It makes no difference to her financial situation or ability to claim benefits whether the father pays to support his kids by giving her cash or giving the CSA cash that they then pass on to her.

So again, what the fuck is the relevance of your post given that it's about CSA?

Its not rocket science but you just dont get it. CSA is not for the mother so is not one of her benefits.
Some benefits are not taken into account and that is one of them. Get over it.

If you know people are bucking the system then all you need to do is report them, cut them loose and get on with your life.
The system is the way it is because no system can be perfect. There has to be list of rules, but in real life some situations dont fit the rules perfectly.

As another poster said, you drank the kool aid. Well done OP. Sit there and stew about how women get away with it. I'm sure it is improving your life no end.

I suppose it makes no difference to my life directly but it has affected me in the sense that I've had to listen to all of this garbage for the past few years. I've lost a person in my life that I thought was a close loving friend but turned out to be a bare faced manipulative liar. Other than that it has no bearing on my life.

Thanks cannot - almost scared to post in case a screamy sweary person attacks!

Cannot abide bullying. And aggression.

Incidentally I do agree with the bulk of that post - there does seem to be a huge Tory infiltration at the moment. Racial attacks, brexit, rich getting bloody richer and gradual erosion of much needed benefits. Not to mention immigration / refugee bashing. It's totally depressing!

What I objected to was the way in which it was expressed I think.

Why don't you go on line and report them?....

So he pays her via the csa? That does not come from the government it comes from his wages, and she will not get any more benefits just because she receives cm.

So those of us that work and pay taxes should also pay more tax on our cm? Have I got that right?

When you were a single parent receiving cm would you have been happy for that money to be taxed?

You still have'nt said if you get child benefit or tax credits?

I also don't believe you work two days a week, school hours, so 6 hours a day and earn over the £11k personal allowance before having to pay any tax yourself.

You just wanted to start a nasty goady single Mum bashing thread with the hope that other people would join in and pat you on the back, you failed.

If you had enough to fill your own life you would'nt have to start nasty threads about your "friends" and relatives".

As the old saying goes, with friends like you etc.

It's fairly straightforward what I mean. In cases were benefit fraud is suspected or were a resident parent refuses to work (say at least one day a week) then the Csa (a set amount) received from the Nrp should be deducted from their benefits.

NOT...SWEARING? Oh God. How terrible.

I work 12 hours a week actually but work from home 1-2 days dependent on the needs of the service. Now before anyone ask why I didn't mention it before well I didn't think it was relevant to my original post. I mean why would it be when the post wasn't even about myself. People just like to be nit picky and there's no need for it.

I dont' think that the current CSA arrangements work well. I don't think that the benefits system works very well either. Both need fixing, and it should in theory be possible to do so in a way that means that someone who receives very generous CS from their ex does not also receive benefits when they are not needed. But we don't have that system at the moment.