To wonder what is so bad about being a 'lefty'?

[imwithspud]

I see it all the time during political discussions on social media. That if you hold certain views you are branded a 'lefty' or 'loony left' like its some sort of insult. I've noticed that it tends to be a stock response by some people when they can't think of something more intelligent to say.

Aibu to wonder what is so 'loony' about holding left wing views, and that actually the world would be a better place if people were more tolerant?

I have identified as 'Left' since my early teens, which were a very long time ago now. I've been on picket lines and conferences and many demos and sat in long meetings as a very young shop steward.

I also like handbags and champagne and good perfume, purchased with the money earned in a frontline public sector job.

I've known public schoolboys who fought with the angels in the Spanish Civil war and working class people who are racist and utterly self serving (the reasons for that are another topic, perhaps)

I most of all believe, with my whole heart, that the measure of a society (sorry, Thatch, there really is such a thing) is how it cares for and enables its most vulnerable members and recognises the value of all the members of that society.

If that makes me a simple minded Lefty to some, I really do not care.

I am a lefty, a Marxist. So what. Loony left is just an unthinking cliche that makes some supposed sense to self hating people.

It would be nice to really debate the merits of specific policies without labels, insults and stereotyping.

I think it's hard to have opinions that you want to 'help the masses' - especially when it comes to education and the NHS when you have family and have to put their needs first as it's easy to get judged.

People would love to see all children have the opportunity to go to a great school and get an outstanding education. But people know that not all schools are like that and a politician will choose a school that does give their child an outstanding education.

If they are right wing, no one bats an eyelid as that's just what happens. You've made the choice for your children and taken advantage of the system. It's expected. Individual choice etc

If you're left wing, you're labelled a hypocrite for not standing by your principles of not supporting local schools. And if people who have the choice abandon local schools, then they're going to be left to people who can't afford to make the choice. But I bet most left wing politicians still want to see all schools offer a good education but they have to do what's right for their children.

It must be hard. Right wing politicians don't have to worry about that. But left wing politicians who want to do the 'right thing' still have their children to think about. Even now, May brought up the fact that Corbyn went to a grammar school and uses it against him. You can still be a 'lefty' if you attended grammar school - because you want all children to have such opportunities to achieve.

no-one rethinks their position just because someone insults them.
Absolutely witsender

They don't get it when for many they haven't had to concern themselves with their children getting into good schools because they are in catchment areas with good schools or have the option money wise in sending their children to private schools

Some working class have made enough money to allow them those choices and they like all parents want to do the best for their children and give their children options they never had

I'd be quite insulted if someone thought I wasn't a lefty.

I've even written for the Guardian.

And yes, my children go to a comprehensive in a very mixed area, I do not have private health insurance and I have spent a considerable period of my working life in organisations trying to reduce social inequality.

I haven't noticed 'lefty' being used as an insult particularly. Maybe it's the people you mix with OP.

I most of all believe, with my whole heart, that the measure of a society (sorry, Thatch, there really is such a thing) is how it cares for and enables its most vulnerable members and recognises the value of all the members of that society.*

This, definitely.

There's nothing wrong with private health insurance, private education etc and still believing the NHS and state education should be centres of excellence.

Proud leftie here too

It's not necessarily people I mix with, more what I see during discussions on social media. The comments section under news articles on Facebook, hash tags on Twitter etc. I don't really hear such insults towards either 'side' in real life. Seems like more of an online phenomena.

Some working class have made enough money to allow them those choices and they like all parents want to do the best for their children and give their children options they never had

What about those children whose parents don't have that option?

DS is lucky. He has the chance to go to a school in a reasonably good catchment. Not the best but not the worst in the city. There are some schools near here that aren't as good - the left wing person in me would like to see the children who have no choice to go to that school to be able to go to a school that does offer a good education.

I would not want DS to go to one of those schools because I know what they are like. I have that choice. If I was 'right wing', that choice would not be questioned. They talk about all children going to a good school but I don't think the grammar option is a good one. The 'left' wing person in me would like to see all the children who have to go to the crap schools go to a school that is good.

I totally get why someone who finally has enough money would want to send their child to a good school - private or grammar if they can tutor for it. I just wish that every child could attend a good school that offers the right education.

I most of all believe, with my whole heart, that the measure of a society (sorry, Thatch, there really is such a thing) is how it cares for and enables its most vulnerable members and recognises the value of all the members of that society.

But you don't have to be left wing to believe that.

It is who you consider to be vulnerable and how you think that you are best able to "look after" them. That tends to be the difference.

A lot of lefties are hypocrites. That's it really.
At least with a Tory what you see is what you get.

"They don't get it when for many they haven't had to concern themselves with their children getting into good schools because they are in catchment areas with good schools or have the option money wise in sending their children to private schools"

Well, it's certainly hypocritical to argue for non-selective schools while sending your own child to a private school. But that's not what most left wing people do.

Most left wing people are arguing for more good schools which are accessible to all. I can't see why you'd argue with that if your local schools are shitty?

"Some working class have made enough money to allow them those choices and they like all parents want to do the best for their children and give their children options they never had"

Fine - it's perfectly understandable that you want to shove your children up the nice end of our uneven educational playing field, but that doesn't mean that left wing people shouldn't advocate for policies which promote equality of opportunity in education.

All of which only reinforces my view that the left wing are intolerant.

Why not just campaign for better rights for part time workers, people in low paid jobs, public sector jobs, and on zero hours contract. Also for a big increase in affordable housing.
Why should I? I don't think those things are as pressing as equality in politics.

The things which have really disempowered women and made their lives intolerable have been poor pay, having no rights at work and insecure and unaffordable housing, all things which have been made worse by Tory policies and austerity which have DISPROPORTIONATELY hurt women and impoverished them.
I disagree. I'm a women, and have had more opportunities since Labour were voted out of government.

We don't need more women like Theresa May and various other career politicians who don't give a shit about the lives of ordinary women because they have fuck all in common with any of them.
Well, I'm an ordinary woman, and I have a number of things in common with TM.

Do you want the right wing to just "go away"? Because I get the feeling that some people on the left wing not only want a left wing government actually don't want there to be opposition. They appear to be fighting to eliminate democracy. And it is those people for whom I reserve the term "loonie".

Seems like more of an online phenomena - that's more or less what I said upthread.

"A lot of lefties are hypocrites. "That's it really.

How so?

"I disagree. I'm a women, and have had more opportunities since Labour were voted out of government. "

Yup - loads more opportunity to live in insecure and unaffordable housing, be stuck in abusive relationships, be poor, have no rights at work and become unemployed.

Thanks Tories - you've made life vastly better for women in the U.K.

Not.

I do too

But we don't live in that society and oit society is divided by class we are not a socialist country or even particularly left wing

I like most parents will always put ds needs first very easy to stand by I will do what's best for others in society too when those options you have are good ones

And if I had more money I would have better options for myself and for ds

Oh and we want to be home owners too, yes allowed to buy council homes (though of course want to money spent on replacing them) and not be at the mercy of landlords

Aspiration to want what others take for granted

Do I want the right wing to go away - no - but if we dismiss you all as 'little Hitlers' facists or bigots it's not nice is it - or actually true

I have been attacked by 'right wing' people on anti fascist marches - do I think that reflects every person who identifies as 'right of centre' - no

so STOP with the lazy and frankly offensive 'loony' comments, hypocrite comments and lazy stereotypes

and stop assuming every one with left leaning views is middle class - I grew up in a single parent family in the 1970's in a terrace house in the arse end of Seacombe - not Holland Park!

Still on this thread we have no real agreement as to what left and right wing really means - except the stereotypical stuff.

"Do you want the right wing to just "go away"? Because I get the feeling that some people on the left wing not only want a left wing government actually don't want there to be opposition. "

Don't be silly.

"They appear to be fighting to eliminate democracy."

How?

The figures came out this week for employment - on the headline, it looks quite good.

But look beyond the headlines and there is a lot more to them. Lots of part time jobs and many many people on self employment - some 15% of the work force now.

How many people on zero hours contracts?
How many people who are one pay packet away from eviction?
Who are in private rented accommodation with all that entails?
Who are struggling on poor pay?

When left wing people raise this, the obvious retort is 'well, what are you doing about it?'

Right wing people don't have to answer this because they don't ever have to worry about such things - out of sight, out of mind.

And people who do raise such things are called 'keyboard warriors'. Probably a valid point - but is it better to at least raise it rather than to totally ignore it?