To give her an ultimatum?

[SparkleSoiree]

DD and her GM (my mother) usually enjoy a fairly nice relationship to the point DD has holidayed with her GM several times over the years in this country and abroad. DD is nearly 16 and is now fairly vocal in challenging the boundaries that have surrounded her over recent years, naturally as she develops her own ideals and beliefs and matures. We have relaxed most of these boundaries now to the point she now makes most of her own decisions, priorities her own school work (good grades), has a lovely group of friends and makes good choices for her health and wellbeing. During the drive back from a weekend away with her GM, visiting a family member, a situation developed in the car between them that has resulted in the breakdown of communication between them that neither will speak to the other. The situation in the car was that GM made a racist comment about two other drivers. DD was upset about this and called GM out on it. GM told her she could say what she wanted and this escalated into a heated situation where DD said GM called her a couple of horrible names, told her she was nothing special, laughed at her when DD cried and then refused to speak to her for the remaining 2hrs on the way home. GM says she did make the racist comments and can do so if she likes, that my DD is no angel and I haven't seen the vile, ugly side to her personality and there is no way she is ever speaking to my DD again unless DD apologies to GM. DD doesn't want anything to do with her again, such was her upset.

So, we are all going to the States for christmas this year including DM. DM is meant to be sharing hotel room with DD and DD is point blank refusing to be anywhere near her saying nobody in her family has ever hurt her in the way GM did and why should she have to katow to GM. The balance of the holiday is due in mid October and I'm not happy about GM coming if this issue is not cleared. It's christmas time, we will have paid a lot of money to go there and I don't want a horrible atmosphere because 2 members of the party aren't speaking, specifically DD not enjoying her christmas and being forced into a situation that she should have a clear choice about. My thinking is that it should be my mum that doesn't come as she is the adult and refusing to accept that she WAS being offensive with her racist comments and that she overreacted to save her own embarrassment when DD didn't play along with her.

For the record, I know the sarcastic side of my DD that DM refers to and to be honest, compared to when my son was a teen, DD is a smooth dream and I can put up with a bit of sarcasm. I think my mum's dig at DD's "vile personality" is that DD didn't comply to her usual controlling methods which made her angry. GM's belief is that she is an elder and DD should respect her and comply with what she says, regardless of DD's feelings.

AIBU to give my mum an ultimatum that she either grows up and approaches DD with a view to resolving this amicably or that we will have to travel without her at christmas time?

[MunchCrunch01]

i'd cancel the holiday or tell DM that she's uninvited because of her behaviour. I'd back my DD in this situation, either Granny apologies, or she doesn't come, she was wrong to say the racist comments, and wrong to say nasty things to your DD. The holiday's poisoned unless granny makes a full and frank apology. Otherwise, you need much more time to pass before attempting a rapprochement.

[TwatbadgingCuntfuckery]

Your daughter called out a racist.

your mother replied in a vile way.

I'm with your daughter. Fair enough your mum can be racist is she chooses but she has to accept that people will tell her 'you are racist' and that she can actually be arrested and/or investigated for racial slurs and abuse.

Your mother was in the wrong and still is.

Tell her she is no longer welcome.

as for the 'respect your elders' well that can fuck off. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are my 'elders' both old enough to be my dad and well, they lied, spun an yarn... enough said

As to her getting worse? hmm... I find that with some older people. They just hit a certain age and go from reasonably nice people to absolute arseholes. Happened with my own grandparents. Both were lovely then, I suspect it was more my rose tinted specs disappeared more than anything, they changed in to vile, sexist, racists who would sit there slagging off single parents on benefits then turn round to me (single parent carer, on benefits) Oh not you. We don't mean you.

[Wineandrosesagain]

user1471452804 what are you on about? Op ignore stupid posts like that one.

[magimedi]

Can't see anything 'unfortunate' about children being bought up with horror at racist behaviour.

I don't think it's got anything to do with age and/or generation. I am of the same generation as the GM & none of my friends are racist. I know some people of this age who are & people in their 20's who are.

I think your DD was right to stand up for this & I would not be taking GM on a holiday unless she apologised.

(And user1471452804 - why don't you get a proper name?)

[flanjabelle]

Your dd is a bloody hero. Good for her!

Your dm should be cut out of the holiday. Her behaviour is disgusting.

[agapanthii]

This is not about a racist comment. ( though well done to your dd for calling her on it. I say this as someone who grew up with an Afrikaans omar, or grandma, so I understand older generation institutional racism, sadly.) This is about how she reacted to being called out on it - the venomous and vile way SHE treated your dd. And the sulking and refusing to back down. Good on you for supporting your dd. She needs to see the real grown ups behaving properly. for you.

[Longtalljosie]

If your mum is making racist comments she doesn't get to say other people's personalities are vile and ugly.

In fact, sod it. She owes all of you an apology for saying that.

Tell her she's not coming unless she has a serious rethink.

What's she (DM) like as a person?

[Gallievans]

Good on your DD for calling out a racist. I have a very controlling DM as well - although her party trick is name-calling and generally traducing my DH. My DD told her straight the last time that this was her father and she either shut up or do without seeing DD.

I would issue the ultimatum. I know you want a family holiday and would probably feel guilty about not having your DM there, but if she is as bad as you say, no-one would enjoy the holiday. Far better to enjoy the US without the bad air - and you can always have a second "Christmas" with her either before you go or when you come back.

Giving her the ultimatum (and sticking to it!!) may just be the shock she needs to change her ways - if no-one has challenged her previously, and she has had a good relationship with your DD until this point, the loss of this could (I hope!) make her think.

Good luck and kudos to your DD, she sounds great and you sound like a lovely mum.

[GipsyDanger]

Your daughter has principles, her principles which she is unwilling to compromise. That is amazing. Especially with a controlling racist to contend with. Lead by your daughters example, cut that horrid vile women out of your lives.

[hazelnutlatte]

User1471etc you think it's unfortunate that young people find racism horrifying? Racism should not be a fact of life and should not be ignored in the real world. I have called out people for racist comments at work and would do so again.
OP I think your mother needs to apologise to your dd or you will need to tell her she can't come on the trip. If this leads to her giving you both the silent treatment then so be it!

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Do you realise what you are doing here? You are being a flying monkey.

It is clear that you don't mean to be but that's what you are. You sound like a you have been subjected to lots of bullying from your DM.

Your DD is 100% correct. Your DM's bullying of her was wrong and she's not going to smooth things over.

It doesn't sound to me like DD is struggling with your DM's attempts at control. She's doing a great job of refusing to take it.

It is you that is struggling with your DD refusing to capitulate to bullying. It is you that is struggling with your DM's refusal to back down from being a bully.

See the silence between them. How will that pan out during days out, sitting in restaurants together, christmas morning opening presents? It just won't work in my mind because when my mother dishes out the silent treatment she does it very sharply.

It doesn't work in your mind because you are terrified of your mother's silence. You have been successfully bullied into submission.

There are two completely obvious ways to non-bullied people to see how that would work. You could uninvite your DM because of her behaviour. You could go anyway, completely back up your DD and give your DM the silent treatment herself if she dares to bully your DD like that.

[PikachuBoo]

My grandfather was racist, of his generation, but he was born in 1900. Being racist is not OK and it's fine for a 16 year old to challenge a family member.

It's not fine for the adult to then turn on the challenger and rip apart their personality.

Yes, off course, your daughter needs to learn that not all people will like it if she calls them racist, but her GM cutting her off is awful.

I wouldn't want that person on holiday with my child.

[Hmmnotkeen]

Unfortunately, today's children are brought up with horror at the racist thing,

Yes it's really unfortunate .

In the "real world" its perfectly acceptable to push back against racism regardless of age. OP I'm glad you're proud of your daughter.

[PikachuBoo]

RunRabbitRunRabbit

What is a flying monkey?

[GipsyDanger]

And just because you are fucking old does not mean you "deserve" respect. That is the most abhorent entitlement. Respect is earned regardless of age

[ImAMorningPerson]

People who arent racist are such sheep.
God, it must be so terrible to think that everyone is equal regardless of skin colour.

[SapphireStrange]

It's the way she turned on your daughter that would be making me rethink the holiday.

I agree with this. The 'vile, ugly side to her personality'???? My grandmother wasn't easy (and neither was I, I accept), but Christ, I can't imagine her ever saying something like that!

I agree with Run that you've been bullied and conditioned into being afraid of your mother's silent treatment. I suggest you stop being afraid of it. Go on the holiday with them in separate rooms. If/when your mother sulks or says something nasty, you all ignore her and carry on having a nice time. Your DD sounds mature enough that you can discuss this with her before you go and support each other during the holiday.

She sounds like a wonderful young woman, BTW. You should be very proud.

DD should not fall out with her Grandmother over this - the little 'snowflakes' have to accept people have different ideas to them it is called 'life'.

user, you don't have to be a snowflake to find racism abhorrent and to call it out. Jog on.

[Peanutbutterrules]

Un-invite your mother now.

She has behaved appallingly and needs calling on it. Racists comments plus bullying and silent treatment? Who would want to be on holiday with that combo to look forward to?

Good for your DD - she sounds great!

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Stop trying to smooth things over.

Let your mother sulk. If she cares about a relationship with DD, she can choose to apologise. She's a grown up. She knows how that works. She doesn't need you to tell her. If you have to pressure her into apologising then it doesn't count anyway.

If she would spoil Christmas for a 16yo child who refused to be bullied into submission, then she doesn't deserve the Christmas.

Back right off.

Tell your DD you know she is right and are backing her 100%. Of course you are sad that DM is doing this to her. You hope that DM doesn't try to ruin her Christmas trip, but ultimately that's DM's choice. You will back up DD and push DM away on the holiday if DM makes that very poor choice.

Then stop pressuring them to make up.

In other words, stop being a flying monkey.

[Pliudev]

'Little snowflakes'?? I'd say this is more an example of how young people can actually show older generations the way and this is our hope for a better future. It seems from OP's comments that the GM is often difficult and that is no way to set an example to her GD. To say a teenager has a vile personality is vile in itself and I think that it's time to point out that the GM's behaviour is unacceptable and that unless she apologises she will not be welcome on the holiday. I have noticed as I get older (I'm 65) that some of my friends think they can say what they like just because of their age and 'experience'. If those opinions are offensive and unacceptable it's great to have young people like the OP's DD around to point that out.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

PikachuBoo

Flying monkeys:

pro.psychcentral.com/recovery-expert/2016/07/the-narcissists-flying-monkeys/#

echorecovery.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/flying-monkeys-no-contact-or-low-contact.html

[TwatbadgingCuntfuckery]

user1471452804 you do know that all those precious little snowflakes joined together will create a whacking great avalanche that will make changes right?

Proud to be a snowflake.

[TaterTots]

The problem with people who scream 'I have a right to my opinion!!!!!' (which is usually a vile one) is that they don't get that other people have the same right. And therefore the right to tell them they're a cuntface.

Tell your mother that, one way or another, you're spending Christmas with your daughter. If she wants to join you, SHE has to apologise.

[Magicpaintbrush]

Your daughter is essentially still a child and to be on the receiving end of such a personal attack from a loved and trusted older family member will no doubt have been really shocking and upsetting from her. Your DM is absolutely in the wrong here, and making remarks about your daughter's personality like that has probably done irreversible damage to their relationship, I doubt your DD will ever forget this.

When I was 17 y parents went abroad and my Nan come over to check on me and my siblings. She asked what time I had gone to bed the night before, to which I replied midnight, and she had a right go at me for going to bed so late, speaking to me like I was 5 years old, a comment to which I took exception (I was 17 and it was my business what time I went to bed!). I can't remember my exact words but I know I wasn't rude in my reply, just affronted. She refused to speak to me for two weeks, and it really fucking hurt. I remember crying on the phone to my granddad asking him to get her to speak to me, the whole thing was really really hurtful. 20 years later and me and my Nan are really close, so we got over it - but it's a horrible memory that I won't forget.

I think what your DM has done, OP, is much worse than what happened to me.

[PikachuBoo]

Thanks RunRabbitRunRabbit.

Now going through all my friends and colleagues ...