To give her an ultimatum?

[SparkleSoiree]

DD and her GM (my mother) usually enjoy a fairly nice relationship to the point DD has holidayed with her GM several times over the years in this country and abroad. DD is nearly 16 and is now fairly vocal in challenging the boundaries that have surrounded her over recent years, naturally as she develops her own ideals and beliefs and matures. We have relaxed most of these boundaries now to the point she now makes most of her own decisions, priorities her own school work (good grades), has a lovely group of friends and makes good choices for her health and wellbeing. During the drive back from a weekend away with her GM, visiting a family member, a situation developed in the car between them that has resulted in the breakdown of communication between them that neither will speak to the other. The situation in the car was that GM made a racist comment about two other drivers. DD was upset about this and called GM out on it. GM told her she could say what she wanted and this escalated into a heated situation where DD said GM called her a couple of horrible names, told her she was nothing special, laughed at her when DD cried and then refused to speak to her for the remaining 2hrs on the way home. GM says she did make the racist comments and can do so if she likes, that my DD is no angel and I haven't seen the vile, ugly side to her personality and there is no way she is ever speaking to my DD again unless DD apologies to GM. DD doesn't want anything to do with her again, such was her upset.

So, we are all going to the States for christmas this year including DM. DM is meant to be sharing hotel room with DD and DD is point blank refusing to be anywhere near her saying nobody in her family has ever hurt her in the way GM did and why should she have to katow to GM. The balance of the holiday is due in mid October and I'm not happy about GM coming if this issue is not cleared. It's christmas time, we will have paid a lot of money to go there and I don't want a horrible atmosphere because 2 members of the party aren't speaking, specifically DD not enjoying her christmas and being forced into a situation that she should have a clear choice about. My thinking is that it should be my mum that doesn't come as she is the adult and refusing to accept that she WAS being offensive with her racist comments and that she overreacted to save her own embarrassment when DD didn't play along with her.

For the record, I know the sarcastic side of my DD that DM refers to and to be honest, compared to when my son was a teen, DD is a smooth dream and I can put up with a bit of sarcasm. I think my mum's dig at DD's "vile personality" is that DD didn't comply to her usual controlling methods which made her angry. GM's belief is that she is an elder and DD should respect her and comply with what she says, regardless of DD's feelings.

AIBU to give my mum an ultimatum that she either grows up and approaches DD with a view to resolving this amicably or that we will have to travel without her at christmas time?

[Pettywoman]

You've done the right thing. Prioritising a good relationship with your fantastic daughter over appeasing your toxic mother is always the way forward. If you go permanently nc with your mother it would all be on her and her awful behaviour.

I applaud you.

[ConvincingLiar]

I'd definitely let your mother stew. I don't think an apology if offered now would be sincere.

[SparkleSoiree]

Thank you everyone. It's been a long, hard battle to raise DD without any of the toxicity affecting her, although some of it has, I'm sure. We're both very proud of her as she is so passionate about people and the world, it's actually quite an amazing thing to see when she really gets into debating mode.

Oh to be that young again!

[pointythings]

You realise you have raised an awesome DD, don't you? Now ignore your toxic DM and keep her at a loooooong distance. She has well and truly shown her true colours and does not deserve contact with you and your family.

[BestZebbie]

"GM made a racist comment about two other drivers. DD was upset about this and called GM out on it. GM told her she could say what she wanted"

GM may be deluded about this - even 'grown ups' can get cautioned for hate speech (depending exactly what she said).

[Mummyoflittledragon]

I have a similar mother to you op. She's a controlling narcissist.

You should be so proud of yourself for bringing up a principled and loving daughter.

I had to have words with my mother when she said some nasty things to me about my dd last year (aged 7 at the time). I bluntly informed her that access to my dd was a privilege not a right and she would cease or I would end the conversation. She started shouting at me and I hung up the phone. We ended up no contact after another event shortly after that for a couple of months. (I wrote to her first about her behaviour). After maybe 3 months, I received a "sorry if" letter. She will never understand her behaviour and even this simple letter must have cost her pride dearly. Like you, I have had a lot of counselling and it is ongoing.

Your child is rightly your priority. It is such a shame your mother cannot have a loving relationship with you and your children.

Speak to your counsellor about responding. My feeling is you shouldn't. Neither should you refund the deposit. She was given a choice to agree to your terms of graciously accepting a refund. Instead, she has chosen to check out from the relationship. In this type of situation, I am learning, it is better to go silent even when we have so much to say.

[dowhatnow]

It might be worth discussing that aspect of her GM's character with your dd, so that she can realise that there is no substance to her insults and she was not expressing long-held beliefs about your dd, just reaching for the most hurtful thing to say at that moment, because she was incapable of defending her point of view

definitely this

[Roseformeplease]

You are amazing. You have brought your DD up to be strong, independent and to stand up for what is right. Your own M (not so D) has clearly spent your childhood working on you so that pulling away is harder - but you have done it!

Well done. Enjoy your holiday.

[BurningBridges]

Just so impressed by the way you handled it all OP - well done, have a fabulous holiday. BTW I wanted to add that imho, even if this is all "resolved" by Christmas, I'd still exclude her from the holiday because I reckon as soon as you get there she'll kick off again - but anyway, bravo, no wonder your DD is great as well.

[MammouthTask]

I'm really sorry about your update and yr mum reaction.
I'm afraid though that it's the sort of reaction I was expecting from her.
She is clearly used to people apologising to her and is very clear that she has done nothing wrong (in her yes) so is unlikely to backdown.

I'm at the way she has been rewriting history and what she has to,d her friends. Just from that, its clear she won't back down.

As PP have said, this is a good opportunity to exercise your boundaries. But please be aware that she is likely to become even more angry and harsh. And that is says a hell of a lot more about her than it does about you :(

[ToastDemon]

Should have read "twat" but my phone decided teat was a good insult.

[ToastDemon]

"Freedom of speech" works both ways. Someone can be a racist that (up to a point, then it becomes an arrestable offense) and someone else is JUST as entitled to tell them their opinion is abhorrent.
It doesn't mean shut the fucking up whilst some teat spews bile.

[oleoleoleole]

You're the only sibling to have a relationship with your mother....that says it all to me..your DM sounds controlling and stubborn and used to getting her own way. She's cutting her nose off to spit her face, I'd say let her.

[Atenco]

Your mother sounds very limited in her reasoning powers, so when someone disagrees with her, she resorts to being "entitled to her opinion" and insults. (Something she has in common with other racists, in fact).

It might be worth discussing that aspect of her GM's character with your dd, so that she can realise that there is no substance to her insults and she was not expressing long-held beliefs about your dd, just reaching for the most hurtful thing to say at that moment, because she was incapable of defending her point of view.

You sound like a lovely mum.

[elfies]

Tell your daughter how proud you are , she sounds lovely .
Your mum sounds manipulative and mustn't be allowed to divide your family .
What does your husband think?

[DryIce]

Your DM should be allowed freedom of speech in her car and home.

As GM suffered no government intervention or punishment for her (hateful) views, it seems she is indeed allowed freedom of speech.

OP - what a sad situation, I think you've done amazingly well - your mum is the real loser in this situation. I hope she comes to her senses, however unlikely it sounds. In the meantime - you're much better off.

And have a great Christmas holiday!

[PNGirl]

"What others consider to be racist views"? Utter bullshit. Any negative comments about anyone based on their race are racist and are extremely damaging to society. If nobody challenges this where would we end up?

[MagikarpetRide]

So sad to hear your update, but not surprise. You deserve a massive amount of praise for standing up for your DD.

Firstly, of course her friends think your DD is appalling. They;ve not been told to truth, I doubt her story includes anything she was saying racistly or what she called your DD. The nugget of truth in it was that there was a disagreement.

Secondly, your DM is fully aware she has acted awfully but having the emotional capability of the average 3 yo is now hitting out at you because she cannot comprehend how she is wrong, possibly ever.

Enjoy the silence and if the flying monkeys come your way tell them the truth, you don't owe her a cover up.

[BarbarianMum]

Phoenix are you on glue?

We all have the right not to have other people's hate speech forced upon us. OP's mum can think what she likes, when her thoughts leave her mouth the people listening have every right to respond.

[DudeWheresMyVulva]

OP, I hope you, your DD and the remainder of your family enjoy your holiday hugely.

[SapphireStrange]

phoenix, racism needs calling out wherever it's found and regardless of whether they're 'lovely in many ways'.

And the GM doesn't sound 'lovely' really, considering how she immediately flew off the handle when challenged and said her granddaughter was 'no angel' and talked about 'the vile, ugly side to her personality'.

As the adult in the relationship, she has a responsibility to respond appropriately to the granddaughter.

[phoenix1973]

Your DM should be allowed freedom of speech in her car and home.
It's not nice for your DD to hear that, but she should not be telling her GM what to say.
Some folk are lovely in many ways who happen to hold what others consider racist views.
Your DD will come across other such people in her life.
It's a shame they couldn't just agree to differ. Neither one of them has the right to try and bend the others opinion.
I wouldn't fancy the holiday with the current situation.

[ohtheholidays]

I'm sorry your going through this OP but please know that as someone wo went through years of abuse at the hands of both of my parents you are a million miles away from what your Mother is like as a parent and that in it's self is a huge thing that you've accomplished you've not only made sure that your DC will never feel the way you did growing up,you've made sure that your Mother can't harm them the way she harmed you and for that you should be really proud of yourself!

I hope you know that your Mothers behaviour is in no way your fault,it never was and it never will be!It's taken me years to see that for my own situation.

I hope you have a lovely holiday with your DD and I hope your Mother learns something from this and says she's sorry.

[CatNip2]

Sorry you have had this OP. I have read the full thread and all the replies and it is obvious that the GM is the issue here, not just for the occasion that kicked it all off, but for what seems like a lifetime. NC with all her children now, your are still having counselling, blaming you for defending your DD from her, etc

Sending my best wishes for your united family and hoping you have a fabulous Christmas x

[Olympiathequeen]

I was going to say that if your DD had called her GM a vile old racist bitch (or something equally offensive) I could understand her demand for an apology, but reading further posts it's clear you mother is quite a controlling nasty piece of work.

Your DD needs to understand that her behaviour (may?) have been questionable (no Info on this from you so I can't be sure) and she needs to be more diplomatic (only she and GM knows the facts) but her ideals are still superior to her GM.

I think maybe disown you mother and refund her the holiday rather than ruin it for everyone,