To think there is very little I can do to make DD1 attend detention when she is at school and I am at home?

[WhenTheDragonsCame]

A bit of back story. DD1 had an awful year at school last year resulting in 5 fixed term exclusions in 7 months. The reasons for these exclusions included not going to detention, swearing at a teacher, smoking cannabis on the way to school and throwing a table. It was a very stressful time for me and I have told her that I cannot do it again this year. It got to the point where whenever she did anything I would get an email asking me to speak to her at home, I did and it made no difference.

I have just had a call from the school to say that she has skipped 2 lessons today and so has a detention after school, They have said that if she doesn't go to the detention she will get another fixed term exclusion and I was asked to make sure that she went. DD1 does not have a phone, and wouldn't be allowed to use it if she did, and is sat in a lesson. I am sat at home stressing as I have no idea if she will go or not. They have said that she is close to her getting excluded permanently.

She is not going to be allowed internet access tonight but there is very little else I can do that will have any effect. Her pocket money has stopped as she is paying back money she stole from her sister, she very rarely goes out and she doesn't have anything other than the internet that she particularly cares about.

Has anyone ever investigated her for SN? Throwing a table and under performing seem like indications to me. Maybe she just can't understand social cues, and has anxiety/sensory overload?

OP, has your DD been assessed for SN at all? It isn't really typical for a child to cheerfully go fishing rather than go to school and not see why that would be a problem.
That combined with a bit of depression probably caused by the loss of your ExH and moving would go a very long way to explaining what's going on here. I say this as someone who has been almost exactly where your DD is now, only my mum was hitting me for fucking up, not supporting me. So, have this and a for your DD and some for you both.

Xpost with mummytime, sorry!

OP could you have her reassessed for SN again? She sounds an awful lot like my DD who has ASD. DD is 13 and is thankfully in a special ASD school, her primary school years (in mainstream) were horrendous for her and dread to think what it would be like if she were in a mainstream secondary.

I would seriously look into having your dd assessed again.

Someone suggested guides. There is an older age group in guiding called senior section. They are 14+
The unit I run has all sorts of girls from all kinds of backgrounds and all behaviours. We have taken very troubled girls in the past and they have found friendship with many different types of girls. They go camping do activities and do things for the community.
It may be something that gives her purpose.

Other ideas are St. John cadets and sea cadets are excellent xx

Trifle - There's no evidence from the OP's posts that:
"they will not have got anywhere near this stage without putting significant pastoral support in place."
Unfortunately some schools don't have great (or even good) pastoral support, sometimes they do but students still slip through the net. I think even the OP would admit the problems most likely stem from home - not through any fault of her own - but the school still needs to be supporting the student. The OP needs to support the school in turn but there is absolutely nothing wrong with her pointing out her initial issues in being able to do that on a practical level.

She couldn't contact her daughter to make sure she attended this detention, and couldn't get to the school to frogmarch her there as her younger child was ill. Yes, the behaviour is out of control at school which is why both the OP and school need to work together to sort this. You can't do that if one party is blaming the other - from the OP and subsequent posts I don't see the OP is blaming the school at all, merely showing her frustration at being asked to do something she simply isn't capable of doing.

I stand by my initial reaction that unless there is a lot of other information that may or may not come to light on this thread, the school is not supporting either the OP or her daughter.

Sorry but I could have written that for my DD . She still can't tell the time despite full attendance and me paying for a SEN tutor for 3 hours a week she just doesn't have the memory capacity and when predicted 9 Us at GCSE there is not much motivation for them to try. Really push for ADHD testing (Which took 18 months so if you can go private do). DD has been on medication since first day back and not one incident and one tutor thinks based on how much work she's done she'll go from a U to a B/C based on the last 2 weeks coursework . They have been amazed at how improved her concentration, memory and general work ethic now and is not being told how awful she is every day!

You say her step father that died was your ex - so did you get divorced in the last few years? Where is her biological dad? Just wondering why she is so unhappy - it must stem from somewhere and it is coming out in this behaviour. Do you have a friend or family member who she likes and respects who can try to get through to her and find out what is going on in her head?

And I don't blame her for her frustration, but it would be unreasonable for her to tell the school - effectively - that she as the parent can't do anything. She might very well explain that she couldn't do anything today, but it's a bad idea to say this on an ongoing basis, because it implies "your problem", and the school will already be aware that DD is their problem, and be taking steps to address this. Assuming they have already used their strategies like parental meetings, discussions with the tutor, detentions, isolation etc, they will be running out of ideas. They will soon be able to show that they have tried enough strategies and it will be permanent exclusion, because supportive strategies can only be used before a finite time before a student becomes too disruptive for the school environment.

That said, I know the OP couldn't possibly have done something today. I just don't think that that makes it school's responsibility not to exclude her if she didn't attend. Again, I can see why the OP is frustrated, but I think it is misdirected.

My dds was like this. I aged 10 years in 3 between 12 and 15. She is dyslexic with no working memory. She had exclusions. She behaved impulsively. Long story short. At 18 she referred herself to adult psychiatric services as we had got nowhere. She has been diagnosed with Adhd. I was told that this is overlooked in girls frequently. With the school I told them I was supportive and disciplined at home but there was a limit to what I could do. In my view she couldn't stop doing what she was.

5 FTEs means a PEX is looming. Does she understand exactly what that means at her stage? You say She knows that if she continues like this she will have to move schools but it doesn't make any difference.
But actually she will be placed in a pupil referral unit for assessment and will only be allowed back to a mainstream school (and not one of your choice) and it is unlikely that that school will be able to match all her option choices. Plus it will be a school and will have rules and expectations.

You said you disagreed with an exclusion for fighting. I hope you didn't make that disagreement clear to your daughter.

Bing great posts. I'm sure they'll help OP and anyone else with a child in this situation who can't see the way out.

Not going to hijack but what you are saying is so true about some schools. My DS has ASD and although sometimes a reasonable adjustment is made when I fight and quote the law it's expected because it's there he will just access it. They treat everything as a choice rather than looking at why he can't make the right choice.

I think it's very significant that op DD missed a lesson to support a friend in need. Personally (I'm no psych!) it shows that she's desperate for the same thing - someone to listen.

I'd get the schools Sen policy out and look through it. Look at the different areas of need, highlight the ones your DD has and the ones you suspect she has in a different colour. Then look at the 3 different stages of interventions next to those things. Look at which have been used, which have been used and failed and the next level of intervention.
Then write a email stating that DD struggles with X, y and z, their policy states they will try......, they've tried....... And it's failed so they say they'll try ...... Next.
Then look at behaviour/exclusion policy. Quote the bit that says they try everything and point out they still haven't tried ..... So shouldn't be looking/threatening PEX until they have.
Then suggest a date for you all to meet and make a plan.

I suspect your DD feels there is no light at the end of tunnel - she can do no right.
My DS school gave him sanctions for leaving the classroom when angry and when he said because he didn't want to throw chairs/tables (he would!) they said if he did that he'd have a sanction. So they effectively trapped him. He has ASD - he behaviour and control aren't that of an nt child and expecting him to be one only serves to cause a rapid decrease in his behaviour.

I'd home educate her, she's clearly getting nothing from school, it's causing her issues, why countinue to bang her head against s brick wall ?

Has the school asked for an EP assessment or has she ever been assessed by one? If she has been underachieving academically for years then this is a massive cause for concern, the attainment gap between your Dd and her peers will be getting wider and this will affect self esteem and confidence and it becomes a vicious circle, underachieving academically is in itself an SEN and needs investigation and support.

Is the school by any chance an academy?

Personally I think banning the Internet won't make one bit of difference, no matter for how long

I agree. This seems to be the stock response for bad behaviour at school. I can't really see why unless spending time on the internet is the reason for not doing homework in which case it clearly makes sense.

It always surprises me when schools seem to think parents should be sorting out the problems that happen in school. Parents are parents. The school is full of professional people, with links and contacts to other professional people. They may not have all the answers, but they should have a lot more resources available to them than parents do.

I would be setting up a meeting with the school where I would be asking very robustly what steps they intend to put in place, what support is being requested, how that is being chased up and what they would like me to do to support them.

Not: the school saying "what are you doing to do about your daughter".

And as for the person who said "I think she should be expelled" - clearly you have perfect children. Maybe they won't always be so perfect. Maybe something will affect their lives and they will need help. I hope you remember your unsympathetic response now and I hope others are more helpful to your children.

Youarekidding has made some excellent points and has explained far better than me why the school have failed her.

Hope you are ok OP and your dd gets the support she needs.

I know this is a very old post, but as I am going through the same thing, I am curious to know what happened in the end. What worked and what not, and how did things turn out.