To think there is very little I can do to make DD1 attend detention when she is at school and I am at home?

[WhenTheDragonsCame]

A bit of back story. DD1 had an awful year at school last year resulting in 5 fixed term exclusions in 7 months. The reasons for these exclusions included not going to detention, swearing at a teacher, smoking cannabis on the way to school and throwing a table. It was a very stressful time for me and I have told her that I cannot do it again this year. It got to the point where whenever she did anything I would get an email asking me to speak to her at home, I did and it made no difference.

I have just had a call from the school to say that she has skipped 2 lessons today and so has a detention after school, They have said that if she doesn't go to the detention she will get another fixed term exclusion and I was asked to make sure that she went. DD1 does not have a phone, and wouldn't be allowed to use it if she did, and is sat in a lesson. I am sat at home stressing as I have no idea if she will go or not. They have said that she is close to her getting excluded permanently.

She is not going to be allowed internet access tonight but there is very little else I can do that will have any effect. Her pocket money has stopped as she is paying back money she stole from her sister, she very rarely goes out and she doesn't have anything other than the internet that she particularly cares about.

I always recommend the Nurtured Heart method, sounds like she's an intense and challenging person, so it would probably work really well with her (after an inevitable push back). It's a method used in schools but parents can use it too, especially for particularly 'challenging' kids.

I had similar problems with my son now aged 17 he has ADHD, we had terrible problems at home as well as at school. His primary school was awful and excluded him for the slightest thing, 5 times in one year, which only made our home life even harder. We did have professionals involved such as educational psychologists, guidance teachers etc but the school looked to us to enforce timekeeping and attending detentions in a way that we could just not achieve.
At secondary school it was so much easier, after many many meetings the school agreed to enforce school related issues such as attendance, timekeeping, disappearing at lunchtime, homework etc and they were responsible for setting sanctions for these issues. In my experience schools would not be welcoming parents just turning up and frog marching their child from one classroom to another. We had a wonderful guidance teacher and deputy head as contacts and I cannot praise them enough.
As a result of the agreement my son was never excluded from secondary school at all. If your DD's school won't help, you may have to consider a move of schools?
We were then able to focus on dealing with the extreme behaviour at home. It was not easy but we survived.
I second getting children who struggle at school involved in out of school activities esp something where a little discipline is required like martial arts, gymnastics, scouts/ guides or one of the cadet forces. Best if it is an activity that other kids from her school don't attend so that she is not prejudged and can truly be herself, and not the troublesome girl label the school puts on her.

Sounds stressful and I really empathise as I have a child with ASD.

Perhaps put the ball back in the schools court.
"I talk to her and give her sanctions at home but how would you like to me ensure she attends the detention straight after school when she is at school?"

See what they say.

And if she's skipping lessons ask them how they are going to make sure she goes from one room to the next like you make sure she gets to school.

It sounds like you are doing your parenting role well - but you can't enforce what goes on in school.

I'm assuming you mean no more internet from tonight not just for tonight ? Mine get longer internet restrictions for much minor misdemeanours. For bunking school and then detention it would be at least a month.

If she bans her dd from the internet for a month, then what does she do if dd acts up tomorrow? By half term she'll be banned until she's 53!

Skipping lessons isn't down to you. You get her to school they should monitor her around the school. No real advise as I've not had this problem but my twins aren't 14 yet. Just wanted to say you're doing great and I hope you and she get the help you need.

I have been through the same thing with my eldest daughter. She eventually left school with one GCSE despite being very clever. Her entire high school experience was a total nightmare, she truanted, stole, lied, manipulated, and lied some more. Yet she was a perfect example of a beautiful little girl in primary school. We did suddenly find out why she was in such a state after she made a disclosure in school one day and then we found out she was going to kill herself. School had failed her terribly, horrendously even, by failing to communicate between departments. They have now changed protocol. You need a sit down with the head teacher, hear tutor, head of year and any chaplain/counsellor. Get them all together and hammer out who is responsible for what etc.

Anyway, You need to get help for your daughter. Her behaviour is a symptom of a bigger problem. She very likely has low self esteem and is feeling incredibly isolated. I moved as a teen and went through very similar trying to carve my space out amongst a new peer group.

As for help, I know that's easy for me to say but unless you know what to ask for , you will be fobbed off constantly. You can get school to offer counseling, sort out a referal to CAMHS and dont ask, TELL them you want a qualified psychotherapist involved. You can also get one privately for between £60 and 120 an hour (!). You need to change her behaviour patterns and CBT delivered by a nvq level 3 is not going to cut it. Try to reach an agreement where you are involved ( to an extent) with her treatment/counselling so you can make sure its going ok and work to move forwards.

You can also ask your local youth service for details of any teen groups and sometimes they do groups specifically for these sort of issues. I think it would be good for you to look into NCS/youth service next year. You can register now and its fab at boosting confidence and helping kids to make friends. My two loved it.

I know its very hard now but it will get better. My daughter is now 18, got an A when she redid her English gcse, passed her beauty NVQ and is now doing a level 3 and has a part time job. But her issues left us with 5 years of absolute misery, left her moving out with her dad and almost cost me my marriage too. But she came around with a lot of help. I hope yours does too.

I bought my daughter a self esteem work book from amazon, it has a picture of a parrot on the front and it has helped her greatly. It was around £12 and it really helped her to think about how she sees herself.

Thank you everyone. I will look at all of your suggestions when the DC are in bed.

DD1 has had counselling at her old school and the new one. I have also taken her to Winston's wish for help with exH's death but there is obviously a waiting list.

She has actually just started at St John's ambulance cadets and I am hoping that will help. Her self esteem is very low and she has no confidence in her ability, I will definitely be looking on Amazon for the book.

When she came out of school she apologised straight away and said there had been a "mix up". She said she went to the toilet and her friend really had to speak to her. The problem is that her behaviour isn't always bad as such she just doesn't think she is doing anything wrong. Like the time she didn't go to school and when I phoned her to see where she was she quite happily told me that she had gone fishing!

Am not sure how the school can be considered to be failing her - she is making bad choices and the school is implementing the policy that allows them to help the children who usually make better ones. What more can be expected?

I don't expect DD1 to get any kind of special treatment and I stand by all the consequences that she gets from school. I don't even mind them informing me of her behaviour and asking me to speak to her at home. What I do not like is them expecting me to be able to get her to do something whilst I am not there and have no way of contacting her.

If I give her consequences at home they work more times than they don't. Her behaviour isn't perfect but it is manageable most of the time. Setting consequences at home for behaviour in school has up until now not had much of an effect.

She really wants an iPhone so maybe I could use that as some time of bribe. Each week she behaves she gets £5 towards a new phone or something like that.

True, but the school still has to keep you informed, don't they? She is a minor. There is no-one else.

Keep me informed definitely but I can't sort it out by myself and at times that is how it feels. One week earlier in the year I got 10 emails from the school in one week and 3 of them were from different teacher about the same incident.

In the nicest possible way, the sanctions they are putting in place are how they are trying to sort it out - you are ultimately responsible for her, so they are informing you of the action they will have to take if she doesn't co-operate. It is your daughter who is causing the problem, not the school by informing you about her behaviour.

They are failing her because they are not looking at the causes for the behaviour and trying to help her learn to manage. They are treating her as a problem child and excluding her. She needs help that can only be accessed with support from the school and it seems very much like they aren't doing that.

She IS a problem child. I'm sure there are reasons, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't apply their policies or keep the OP informed. Options are limited when you are dealing with a child who chucks tables and swears at people. What do you expect them to do?

Why have the consequences at home for school misbehaviour not had an effect? You say sanctions for home behaviour work most of the time - so clearly you have a system of punishment and reward that works for out of school behaviour - so why doesn't it work for in school behaviour?

The school are applying in their policy for her behaviour in school - you can't blame them for it. They are telling you so that you can work in conjunction with them, DD needs to learn that behaviour like you described in school cannot be left at the school gates, you need to reinforce sanctions at home as a result of that behaviour.

What is going on at school that leads to such behaviour, throwing a table (maliciously? Or a joking shove with her friends that got pounced on because of pat behaviour?) is pretty extreme and behaviour like that is going to cause long term issues.

She IS a problem child

Really nice to read that comment in response to a parent reaching out for advice and support on a parenting forum, from someone who doesn't even know the girl.
The OP wasn't seeming to me to be objecting to being informed but objecting to the school expecting her to control her child while said child was actually at school.
Probably the same parents / school teachers who told me there is no such thing as ADHD, just badly behaved children and it's all the parents fault.
If your own children are perfectly behaved angels consider yourself fortunate, and feel free to give yourself a gold star, but try and show a little compassion to parents (and there are a lot of us on here) who are struggling to do the best for their child with very little support.

OP my DD is exactly the same and I have been fighting hard to keep her in school for 2 years now. She has no end of input from services but just isn't interested . She has however started medication for ADHD and touch wood , touch wood has had a week free of major incidents. Like your DD she has a big temper and is very impulsive, she struggles academically due to the issues with memory and concentration. It makes me sick with worry whenever my phone rings during school hours, and I have the same issue with trying to manage her when she's in school, They call me and says she's ran off site can you get her back etc. They used the threat that I'd be joining her in school, weirdly she was over the moon about it! I have no real advice but really push with CAMHS, DD has been seeing them for 3 years and they have been incredibly supportive and have observed DD in school and fed back to staff on ways forward.

Well, I don't see the point in sugar coating it, sorry. The OP has my sympathy because her situation sounds difficult, but the bottom line is it sounds like the school are trying to help her daughter and can't, because she is making poor choices, and the OP is being expected to exert some control as a parent. If she can't, that is an additional problem, but it isn't the fault of the school. Her daughter is her responsibility first and foremost.

Throwing detentions and threats of FTE at a child who is obviously not coping in school is not supporting her at all. I work with students of her age who find accessing a full time curriculum at school nigh on impossible and there are strategies and ways they can support her that won't involve pushing her into a corner, isolating her from her main care giver (who wants to go home after a crap day to be told off by the one person you need to have on your side?).

Does she have any positive relationships with adults in school? Is there someone who she feels is on her side? That has to be someone who is reinforcing the rules and collecting her from lessons to take her to her detentions, but in a non-confrontational way that still addresses what she's done wrong. They certainly aren't there to be her friend but they need to be the one person who she will eventually start to seek out when she knows she's screwed up and can trust to help her unpick her own mess.

The problem is when kids start acting up it becomes too easy to see what they're doing wrong so even they lose focus on what they enjoy and get pleasure from. What's her favourite subject? Can she get involved more with that and maybe even start helping out with after school clubs in that area? If she enjoys art or sport for example then are there any Year 7s she can help at lunch time to make time up for detentions? To start with she'll no doubt kick off about doing it, and it'll be seen by some in school as a 'reward' (it always is but that's another story...) but it might just help with her self esteem and if you can get working on that then you might be able to work on the other stuff.

Alternatively, does she just need the fresh start a managed move would give her? Only you and her with the school can answer that one.

It's a fine line to support the school and support her, I don't envy you at all.

Trifle who pissed on your chips??

She is not a problem child. What she is, is a child with problems. If you can't tell the difference then I pity any kids who have/plan to have.

The school are not looking at or for the triggers here from the OP's posts they are simply reacting to behaviours that have escalated probably because people are flipping out over minor things that they would probably let slide if it was any other kid without the op's dd background.

OP seriously keep pushing for CAHMS to assess, also speak to the parent support groups, if they do permanently exclude her you will need their help to get your dd into a new school.

Is there any adult be it family or a friend that she might listen to? If so could they talk to her, maybe speak to her about why she is feeling this way?

Have you spoken to a GP with her? I struggled hugely with my temper at school. Eventually I was diagnosed with depression - she may need some form of anti depressant to help keep her emotions on an even keel.

Again, sorry, I just see it differently. I would post in more detail but I think I have explained my perspective. Sometimes people need to take personal responsibility.

Seriously trifle you are bang out of order.

The op has at no pint abdicated responsibility and is backing up the school so do fuck off

The table was thrown in anger when she was in a classroom with a teacher only. The only exclusion I have ever disagreed with is when DD1 was in a fight and even the teacher who phoned said that she was defending herself and hadn't actually done anything wrong.

She is impulsive so at home I can threaten the consequence at the time and it would be instant whereas at school I have told her hours before and the consequence would be later in the day. That's the only thing I can think of.

She struggles academically and has been behind expected levels for nearly her whole school life. You can explain something to her, like telling the time, and 30 minutes later she will have forgotten.

I am going to buy her the self esteem book and hopefully that and st johns ambulance will help her.

Thank you all for your comments.

Your opinion, up to you. But I think there is some seriously poor advice being doled out on this thread. The OP wanted to know if she is being unreasonable to tell the school that she can't help with making sure her DD attends school sanctions, and I think that would be a very poor move. Five fixed term exclusions in one academic year sounds like the behaviour is completely out of control, and unless more happens at home to address this, the school will soon be gathering evidence for permanent exclusion, because they will not have got anywhere near this stage without putting significant pastoral support in place.