To not care about moderate swearing

[Selfimproved]

Just had a message from mum in class asking how we feel about our kids (f9) being shown a clip in music where the singer sings/ mumbles 'fuck' once.
I asked my son and when he explained it, it was two examples of the same song. One original blues version, one nirvana version.
I know the kids see and hear worse at home / in music videos. I can't get worked up about this. I know this mum will kick up a fuss.

Interesting thread.

Out of interest would any Mumsnetters object to kids aged 5 to 7 years regularly doing P.E to a song which had lyrics in it of 'bitch', 'damn' and 'funk you up' which tbh sounds like a play on words of 'fuck you up'? Would that bother you or would you shrug it off and not be bothered?

Long lost. Swearing is not a mechanism for avoiding violence. Nor is swearing a sign of approaching violence. Generally swearing is a sign of ignorance of your own languagp

engineers recent research has shown that people who swear a lot generally have larger vocabularies... So probably not ignorant at all. paper here for you to read.

I can't get worked up about this. DD2 is 13 and in Yr9 - she listens to a lot of sweary music. She's very articulate (both my DDs are) and literate - how many 13-year-olds are able to have an articulate discussion about the merits of the Oxford comma? She also knows when it is OK to swear and when it is not.

I would want to know what the teacher is trying to achieve with this particular piece of work, but I wouldn't get my knickers in a knot about it.

Swearing is not a mechanism for avoiding violence well, I think it is, so we will have to agree to disagree

The nirvana version of that song is incredible, I love it. Ds is 2 and has heard that song when we've watched nirvana unplugged. I wouldn't bat and eyelid in year 9!

Longlost I think swearing can be a valuable safety valve, a way to let out rage that might otherwise find its way out in less safe ways. I agree with you.

I just hate the way some people assume that person who swears = stupid and ignorant.

The nirvana version of that song is incredible, I love it. Ds is 2 and has heard that song when we've watched nirvana unplugged

Does he say fuck on the unplugged version? We've been listening to it the car recently and I hadn't even noticed

No I don't think so hip hop. I've never heard them play another version of it though? It's only on the unplugged album AFAIK.

So the above mentioned paper does say using taboo words is negatively correlated with agreeableness..

I'd be surprised if there was actual scientific evidence that swear words are stored in a different brain area to regular vocab.

There is very credible evidence however that people who swear generally have better and wider vocabularies than those who do not.

It's like sweets surely? Kids who've never seen them get to teen years and turn into sugarmunchers extraordinaire. Kids who never hear swearing suddenly think it's illicit and cool.

They are 13/14 they will be quite used to hearing that word

There are a few versions of Kurt Cobain singing it on YouTube MrsC

One of them, from just before he was murdered died is quite raw and full of emotion, but I've never heard him say fuck in any of them either.

Bakewell but agreeableness is only one character trait - it sits among a range of others which, put together, make a functioning adult. It is also possible to be too agreeable.

FWIW my DDs are as agreeable and lovely as anything. They also hear a lot of bad language, mainly the word fuck, in the music they like (MCR, Black Veil Brides, Fallout Boy, Panic! At The Disco, the list goes on - lots of really great music but with swearing.).

I think people get very precious about bad language. I'm from Holland originally - the Dutch are much more sweary than the British. Societal breakdown is not noticeably happening in my home country.

I swear a lot. I don't know why my parents didn't. But my kids don't use the words at all. They hear them on TV, they hear them in music they hear them from me, but they know they musn't use the words. I have no issue with them hearing it. I would have issue with them saying it.

to those who don't like swearing because those who swear are ignorant: do you have any other arguments against swearing that aren't basically "cos it's stupid". My ignorant swearing brain thinks that's a fucking shit argument

I think swearing has its place in language and it's important for children to understand that place, and when it is and isn't appropriate to swear.

Personally I quite like swearing, I think it has a range of useful uses. And I do have quite a large vocabulary and a post-graduate degree, so not everyone who swears is stupid and ignorant.

But I would never never swear at someone, only about something or about a situation, and I think that's quite a key difference. I think LongLost has a good point - if you hear someone say "you cunt" to someone else that's definitely aggressive and quite different to muttering "fuck fuck fuck" when you bang your toe really hard or something similar.

I have heard of studies showing that swearing can reduce pain and also that it engages different parts of the brain to the normal language centres if you MRI scan someone swearing. It's a very interesting area of language.

I swear like a navvy with my friends and down the pub - and given that I've got a PhD I hardly think it's a sign of ignorance or lack of vocabulary - but rarely, if ever, in polite conversation, or at work. I generally find that a little swearing in the right context can add some much-needed humour to an otherwise dull situation.

My dc are 11 and 8, and as they get older I've started using the occasional "bloody" and "bugger"; they know the word "shit" as exH used it in front of them a while back . And they know the words "fuck" and "piss" because I was explaining about swear words to them, and why adults swear, and how some swear words are more offensive than others. I'd rather them know the words, so that when they hear them at school - and they will - they know what they mean and don't use them inadvertently to a teacher.

I haven't quite braced myself to explain "cunt" to them yet though

I think there's a bifurcation - at one end, swearing is (as my mother insists) a sign of ignorance and a limited vocabulary....but at the other, it's a sign of intellectual confidence. As another poster said, there's a difference between using swear words descriptively and swearing at somebody.

longLost - swear words are stored in a different part of the brain?!

Utter bollocks

'words' are vocabulary, stored in the area of the brain concerned with communication, words considered socially to be blasphemous, or swearing are stored elsewhere totally

In the attic?
In Sainsbury's?
In my neighbour's garage?

Swearing at somebody is ever acceptable, and my DDs know this. DD1 swore at me not long ago in an attack of blind teenage rage (followed by a full on panic attack) - the first thing she did on coming out of the attack (and we are talking about the kind of thing that leaves one unable to speak, unable to process any sensory input, rocking and screaming on the floor) was apologise for swearing at me. We need to be a lot less pearl-clutching about swearing and allow ourselves to be fallible human beings sometimes.

Foxes, you demonstrate my point perfectly! The broad use of profanity, particularly in the presence of children, marks people out as belonging to a certain type. That type usually lacking education, inteligence or whit.
The use of profanity represents frustration at being unable to clearly communicate ones feelings or thoughts. Therefore, swearing is not a relief valve but an indication that the speaker has limited capacity to develop discourse further.

engineersthumb

Nonsense.

You may not like or approve of swearing, but it has no relation to lack of intellect or education.

''A New York Times article cites several other studies that involve how a healthy brain processes swearing.
For example, the brains of people who pride themselves on being educated respond to slang and "illiterate" phrases the same way they do to swearwords. ''

A swearword is only a swearword because we make it into one. It is value laden. Take away the heat and it is just a word.

people.howstuffworks.com/swearing4.htm

Articles here;
people.howstuffworks.com/swearing6.htm#Dewaele

engineersthumb
''research shows that people tend to fill the awkward gaps in their language with “ers” and “ums” not “shts” and “goddmnits.”
Swearing is not a sign of either a limited vocabulary or low intelligence. You may equate it with a lack of social intelligence, but that is your opinion not a fact.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-swearing-a-sign-of-a-limited-vocabulary/