To think this midwife sounds a right bellend?!

[MyBreadIsEggy]

I'm watching a documentary about midwives in a big women's hospital. A woman has been in the hospital for a few days, multiple attempts at induction (she has a medical condition that means the baby needs to be delivered) and absolutely zero progress has been made with getting labour going. She's getting increasingly more hacked off about being stuck in hospital with nothing happening, and a midwife actually just said: "well think of it this way, if you're still here, then you're increasing your chances of having a normal delivery, not just ducking out and having the c-section" What the fuck?!
I've had a vaginal delivery, but I can't imagine major abdominal surgery is a walk in the park! To hear such an experience being described as "ducking out" by someone who's supposed to be supporting women at their most vulnerable has really riled me!!

I had a c section. It was bloody terrifying at the time. I didn't want to have surgery I wanted my baby to be born safely.

I had two emergency sections and one elective. It was the safest way to deliver my children and anyone who has a problem with it can fuck right off.

My MIL likes to point out that I've never given birth 'properly'. She can fuck off too.

It must be very different being a midwife if you've actually had a baby compared with if you haven't. I imagine a lot of this sort of comment comes from midwives without personal experience

I had an elective section (not by choice, on doctor's advice) and the recovery was hard. The worst bit at the beginning was being so sore I couldn't lift my baby or feed her very well. I felt pretty helpless as a mother, not able to properly care for my baby

YANBU. What a bitch!

I've had both deliveries. I had a 3rd degree tear and forceps birth with DS and DD was breech so an ELCS, although it was recommended I have an ELCS anyway because of my first birth.

I have to say the section wasn't that bad in terms of recovery, but I got DH to have a month off, did as little as possible and kept on top of my pain meds, certainly seemed easier than my horrible tear and stitching for about 45 minutes in theatre.

A woman should give birth in the way that is safest for her and her baby, whatever that way is. A 'midwife' that has shitty views has no place being in that job!

I had to have a c-section, basically because of mistakes made by midwives.

I then had to listen to various family members and people I know talk about how I hadn't given birth properly or the right way and how they were 'worried' about how I would bond with the baby and other such crap.

From that experience on I really began to realise how badly women are treated in our society.

That's a really dickish thing to say, speaking as someone who had vaginal birth (and an epidural).

All through pregnancy I was really taken aback by the total unshakeable belief of the midwifery profession that every woman actively wants a natural labour with no pain relief - and wants it badly enough to endure injuries leading to permanent damage in preference to other options.
I appreciate that this is what many women want, and obviously if a baby can come out straightforwardly then that is easier all round (and cheaper for the NHS etc) - but it really seemed as if anyone saying anything else was simply blanked or corrected as to what they really wanted.

I had an EMCS after a failed induction: it turned out that scarring on my cervix from previous surgery meant my it couldn't dilate, despite 20 hours of hard contractions. I was devestated that my body "failed" me, but bloody grateful that there was a way to get my baby out safely.

The recovery was no picnic - I ended up with a wound infection for a start. If someone suggested to me that it had been the easy option I'd probably punch them in the face.

disclosure, I have had a VB and an ELCS

I don't understand the ethos that a woman must suffer to give birth. Wanting a woman to suffer is sadistic.

Why not want a woman to have an easy birth? The language that midwife chose implies vaginal birth will be more difficult (which I found to be the case) and that that is a good thing. No, that is just cruel.

There is so little body autonomy for women giving birth in the UK. They have so little choice over what is happening to them and how it happens. There is so little transparent information about success and failure rates of birth methods and interventions for women giving birth for the first time (stats are almost all conflated with subsequent births which make VB look a better outcome than it is) and what information there is is never given freely and completely. We are fed an agenda.

And sadistic, power hungry, ill-educated, agenda driven midwives do nothing to improve this.

bestZebbie I know what you mean. I was really keen to have pain relief and I was really lucky to have a midwife who had no quarms about it at all. I asked for pethidine and without a moments hesitation she did the necessary. I was very glad of it, and it made the whole process much easier. I'm glad to report that there are good midwives out there too.

Just to add to my earlier post: my next delivery after the emergency section was an elective section and out of the three deliveries it was my absolute favourite so it is entirely possible to have a positive caesarean experience. It's still a bugger to recover from though. After my VB I walked frim delivery to the postnatal ward despite having a few dozen stitches in my fanny and I was out and about with the pram the day after getting home. The sections took much longer to recover from. After my second one I attempt the afternoon school run (a one mile walk) when the baby was a week old. I got to school no problems but as we left the yard I couldn't physically go any further, my energy vanished, I felt dizzy and grey and sick. I had to ring my mum to come and pick me up in her car from a park bench. It was within sight of my house but I just couldn't do it.

Words are so powerful and as midwives we need to be careful what we say to women. What we may see as a throwaway passing comment can be taken to heart and remembered for years.

I still remember 16 years on going for my six week GP check who when looking at my reason for em lscs said "oh yes, failure to progress". I went home and cried. A lot of doctors and midwives would shrug and think we'll that's recognised terminology. Well maybe we need to challenge the terminology. Maybe we need to remember that women will just hear "fail, failure" and for some women that will really affect them.

Not what you need from a midwife! No women should be judged on how she gives birth the most important thing is that a healthy baby is delivered.

I have had 3 vaginal births ( although 1 was a stillbirth) with not much pain relief needed and I have recovered quickly from all 3 I was very lucky compared to some peoples vaginal births

My sister had to have an emergency c section after complications after she'd been in labour several hours, my sisters recovery was far from easy, she got infections in her scar and a few other problems and was in pain for a fair old time

I have friends that have had private care and opted for a c section because they don't want vaginal births, that is there choice and Absouletly no shame in it!

It really doesn't matter how a baby arrives in the world as long as it's safe and healthy

PikachuSayBoo - when I was a student nurse, (many years ago). I spent some time in the "Maternity Ward", my mentor used to say that when MW etc used the term "failure to progress" it usually meant that "failure to wait".

IME, you are most vulnerable to be coerced into unnecessary intervention about an hour before the MW shift finishes.

Yanbu. I find that level of stupidity genuinely amusing, but there are people who'd be very bothered by hearing that and it's unacceptable.

I had two vaginal births and an emcs on my third. I was shocked how sore I was afterwards and was thinking why would anyone say it was the "easy" option.

You don't get to recover as you are basically looking after a newborn from the get go!
I couldn't even take the pain killers they prescribed as I was so spaced out on them and was afraid I would drop the baby.

I've never had a birth child, but I have had a hysterectomy, so from my limited experience, I can only imagine what you mums have went through. Anyone who thinks it easy is a dick.

Wow! In my experience, having 4 failed inductions over 3 days, the more intervention she has will lead to higher risk of section. After my failed inductions (due to pre-eclampsia) they eventually broke my waters, put me on oxytocin (?), I went into full labour, got to 9cm and then ended up with emergency section as baby got into distress. Heard so many similar stories afterwards. Recovery was very hard. I'm now 35 weeks on baby no 2 and I'm praying to go naturally so I can't still look after my daughter (1.5 yrs old)and drive her to playschool etc. Very thoughtless comment by the midwife there and I would have been hugely unimpressed.

My first was ELCS due to breech - I suppose I ducked out from the multiple serious risks of a breech birth when fewer midwives have ever dealt with one. Should I have let them roll the dice?!

Second was also ELCS because the first one was so pleasant! Plus DH has medical anxiety and the lack of control in VB would have been awful to deal with, for him and then indirectly for me.

I have watched it and to be fair she did not say it to the woman she said it in an off piece to camera. And I think yes she did say it but sort of she was trying to explain how she tries to reassure people when things don't seem to be happening and it all just came out a bit wrong. She was quite young and I think she just said it very badly without meaning it how it sounded.

All through pregnancy I was really taken aback by the total unshakeable belief of the midwifery profession that every woman actively wants a natural labour with no pain relief - and wants it badly enough to endure injuries leading to permanent damage in preference to other options.

I don't understand the ethos that a woman must suffer to give birth. Wanting a woman to suffer is sadistic.

BestZebbie and herethereandeverywhere I'm still convinced this stems from the old fashioned idea women were supposed to suffer during childbirth because of Eve's fall. It's very weird, but there are still people who think like this and demand women have natural births with no medical intervention. What they forget is the high mortality rate of women dying in childbirth as well as their children.

Although I agree that was very badly worded, I don't think (most) midwives are being sadistic or power hungry, etc, in preferring the birth option with the least intervention. They are taught that normal/vaginal birth is better for the baby's immunity, their breathing, etc, and that sections are ten times more expensive than a vaginal delivery and will lead to a longer hospital stay. They know that recovery is much quicker after a vaginal birth, breastfeeding is (meant to be) established sooner and the risk of complications and infection is vastly reduced. And so on.

Most midwives do promote normal birth, but their only 'agenda' is to do what is best for the mother and the baby, and the majority of them do a bloody fabulous job.

Awful - and so what if someone did find a c-section 'easier' than a vaginal birth? Birth is a means to an end, not an end in itself. What counts is a healthy baby and healthy mum. I can't bear the emotional blackmail exerted on women who are in pain and at their most vulnerable. It's a form of torture surely?! I'd also guess breastfeeding rates would be higher if women had a better birth experience. I know people who were just too exhausted, emotional and sore to have the energy to pursue breastfeeding when the baby struggled with it as so many of them do.

Sapphire, I completely agree.

Awful remark by that midwife. I had a terrible first birth as DS1 was unknowingly massive, and I ended up with a forceps delivery and a third degree tear, which almost left me faecally incontinent (ten seconds warning before I had to go. I was so lucky I always managed to get to a toilet in time.) and the tear healed incorrectly due to infection and losing stitches too soon. I was in pain for a year after the birth until they did a refashioning of the scar tissue.

Second DS - planned csection due to all the horror of DS1's birth. The anaesthetic wore off near the end of the section and I got through it without being put under general anaesthetic as I'd requested gas and air for when they put the spinal in, and I still had it, so it got me through.

Then... my scar re-opened in several places and didn't fully heal until DS2 was nine months old. Like fuck is a section 'ducking out'.

Sadly if you read things like the Morcambe Bay report attitudes around "natural birth at all costs" in MW teams can lead to poor outcomes for mothers and babies