AIBU to think my partner is being really unreasonable?

[user1473095445]

Short version: Is it reasonable, ever, for my partner (mother of our kids) to habitually say nasty things about me in arguments in front of the kids, like "you are a despicable person", "go and be miserable with someone else", and also to encourage/involve said kids in seeing me that way?

Long version:
Hello, this is my first post. I'm a father of two (daughter 5, son 2) and I was hoping to get some perspective on something that really troubles me in an otherwise good partnership. My partner is a wonderful mum, dedicated, savvy and very much admired by me for all she does for her kids and for me. We are close, but we have always had a particular kind of fight, since we met, the dynamics of which I will only touch on as far as it helps explain what REALLY troubles me.
To summarise today's example: I came home from an extremely busy day at work (walking almost 2.5 miles each way there). Tired, but otherwise perfectly happy; happy to see my kids, especially since my daughter had her first full day at school, happy to see my partner.
I am quite happy to admit that the genesis of the palpable tension that followed was with me in the concrete sense: we had agreed that I would take DS (2) out whilst she spends time with DD before her bed. No problem with that. But I could feel I was so tired that I wasn't ready to go out just that very second; I needed 15 -20 mins after chomping my dinner down.
As I could feel the tension rising from her, I tried to pre-empt by saying "I'll leave as soon as possible". Pre-empt failed, as the reply was the very thing I was trying to pre-empt, the kind of response that makes me feel harassed "but the sooner you get out the sooner we can put the film on". OK, deep breaths etc...This is where things always get hazy, and I won't try and describe exactly what happens next except to say that she turns up the get-out-of-my-way vibe whilst I move between feeling bewildered, annoyed and trying to get her to listen to what I actually meant by that tactless thing I just said...rinse and repeat a couple of times and before you know it she is saying the things above to me: "You are a despicable human being", "go an be miserable with someone else, find another partner" and saying to my daughter "ignore daddy, he's not here".

It is so so over the top, and unbelievably hurtful, and also hypocritical. Because she quite rightly says that we shouldn't argue in front of the kids, she is all about the kids, hyper-focussed on them. But when I push the wrong button (and I would never claim that I don't foolishly push certain buttons, when tired, stressed or feeling insecure) all bets are off with me, and she says horrible things like that and even gets our daughter to ally with her. That's when I snap and end up shouting about how harmful what she is doing is. But she has already put up the Kryptonite shield several minutes before, meaning I do not exist.

I know no-one can unpick the particular tangle that creates such interactions in the first place, but could I please get some perspective on my sense of this being really really out of order? I am no angel, I can be and have been a difficult person and my partner has been wonderful and helpful and forgiving in many ways. I'm sure she could tell a thing or two about my character flaws - but what infuriates me is that she never ever wants to examine the side of her that behaves as above. Help?

Yes I don't get the 'always gets hazy' either?

You know what happens in a row and who said what. How is it hazy then?

And no excuses for her shouting at you like that by the way.

OP she has got used to saying things that are, to me, abusive.
A conversation now and they need to stop.
I think it can be solved if there are no other issues but needs to be stopped in front of the kids asap
And for you. You are a human being and those are terrible words
Go talk to her. You deserve respect OP go get it

By 'take the toddler out', were you supposed to take the youngest elsewhere so mum and DD1 could enjoy some quiet time, watching a movie after her first day at school? Instead you wanted everyone to wait for 20 minutes as you were tired? I'm sorry, but that would have given me the rage as well.

No, she shouldn't have used those words in front of the children, but could I ask what she should have said which would have conveyed her feelings in a way acceptable to you.

Right, so where's his partner's responsibility though? He has to get counselling to be less insecure and angsty, and his partner's simmering volcano of rage will just magically disappear? Because he's the sole cause of all the venom she also directs at her family of origin?

Seems they could both use some help communicating.

I think that's a good point a pp made about identifying the flashpoint - what is it about their interaction that drives his partner into this nasty rage? It's his responsibility to work this out & modify his behaviour (I'd suggest by stopping trying to explain himself / bedding down in the conflict,
and just getting on with taking the toddler out as promised). But it can't all be his responsibility simply never to do anything that might annoy her. She also needs to work on managing her anger more constructively.

Of course that is not ok.

But how come everything you do wrong has an excuse attached to it but she's not allowed to use the same excuses.

None of you should be excusing goading each other not doing what you aranged in good time and being pricks to each other

You walk in the door, she is ready to hand over some responsibility for child care, you ask for time as you are not ready, she just wants to get on with the job so she can relax but she doesn't know exactly when that time will be....

My advice is to negotiate a written schedule at the weekend or in the morning specifying times. Perhaps if she knows that you won't be taking DD out until, let's say, 7pm, it will be easier to bear. Fact is, she sees you having 20 minutes relaxation time but she isn't getting the same...she has to wait for hers.

Neither of you are in the wrong here, you would just benefit in making a plan which takes into account both of your needs and wishes and may involve both of you compromising,

Good luck!

What I said doesn't detract from ops partners behaviour BipBip. My point is that she isn't willing to talk about her part in the situation. The only person op can change is himself. Change and the dynamic in the relationship will change. Of course her incandescent rage and abusive language is awful. However if op doesn't learn the skills to stand up to her, nothing will ever change. That's why he should perhaps think about doing some of these things. I'm not into victim blaming and I see no other solution when ops partner refuses to acknowledge her part.

YANBU at all. MN fucking drives me mad sometimes.

There was a thread on here yesterday about a woman whose DH had told her to put his washing away and she was told it was totally disrespectful and to LTB because she was not his servant.

I can't imagine that if a woman came on here and was told by her husband that she must leave the house immediately with one of the children that she would be told it was her fault and that she'd spoken to him in the wrong way or wound him up and must deserve it and should try harder to do what he wanted next time.

I have to say, at the moment I have newborn twins and a 4 year old who started school yesterday. I can assure you this is a hell of a lot tougher than having one school age child and spending most of the day alone with a toddler, but I have managed to do it without resorting to treating my husband like some sort of barely existent piece of shit on my shoe.

Nobody deserves being spoken to like that, and certainly not in front of their children. I think she's also creating a very unhealthy dynamic between your children if she is encouraging your daughter to join in with pressuring you and DS to go away.

Well said BillSykes.

I would leave someone who was openly goady towards me, I would leave someone who did not meet their commitments and I would leave someone who described their own behaviour in the way the op does.(for the behaviour not the description)

I would also leave someone who spoke to me like the op's partner does.

Perhaps instead of working on both unacceptable behaviours they should cut their losses and part company because ofcourse life is far easier when you ditch people quickly and have your tolerance bar set so low

He follows her around the house saying things to get a reaction? From what I read he says 'please let me speak' - how is this emotionally abusive and predictive of physical violence?

I would suggest marriage counselling. Relate or something similar. We found it very useful in changing the way we argue and agreeing rules to a disagreement

This is such a strange post. OP, can you just explain simply and clearly what was said?

I understand why people are dubious, and I don't think it's because you're a man (as BillSykes indicates). The deliberate vagueness seems designed to hide something.

A lot of things being said on here are the kind of things people said in the 70s to justify men treating their wives like shit.

'You shouldn't have nagged'

'You should just have done what you were told to as soon as you were asked to'

'You must have been too annoying'

He's saying she is goading him, not that he wants to goad her! She is dismissing and rebuffing him when he tries to talk about what's going on. Should he just put up and shut up to suit her mood, whatever that happens to be?

On other threads you hear all the time that sulking / ignoring / being curt is emotional abuse... but now trying to engage with a person who is doing that is also emotional abuse - - of the worst kind, that could lead to physical violence? I don't get it.

I hear the OP as someone who faces a torrent of rage and personal attacks when he takes longer than his partner would
like to do something, or asks to be heard by his partner when she'd rather dismiss or ignore him. Not surprising really that he feels insecure in the relationship.

As a prolific sulker myself I do know it's annoying to be followed around by someone who wants to discuss what I'd rather stew over and be bitter and self-righteous about. I also know that as much as they're being annoying, I'm being a massive twat. I'd love it if they would just leave me alone, and do what I want them to do in a timely fashion, and not ever be tired when I'm also tired, or stressed when I'm also stressed, or a bit irritating when I'm in a mood. But life's not like that. If I tore my husband a new one any time he tried to talk me out of a sulk we'd have been divorced years ago.

So he should avoid doing anything that drives her crazy, whatever that may be, even if it's just trying to talk through the conflict they are having?

Her behaviour is essentially saying, if you so much as try to speak about how you feel or what you think is going on, it will drive me crazy and I will make sure the children know what a despicable person you are.

I just don't see how he can be held to blame for this.

There's never any excuse for anyone to talk to another human like that, especially in front of children. If this was reversed the words EA, would be banded about.
She does sound in desperate need of more support though, could you get some time alone, child free to talk it through?

I would like to hear more about the hazy bit where you said stuff that upped the tension. Simply because at the moment you only seem to remember what she said, but not your part?

How he talks is irrelevant. I can't imagine any of you saying to a woman who posted this that it would drive you mad and if anyone did there would be someone within a couple of posts complaining about victim blaming.

Sorry, X post.

Agree on the way to handle sulking. But if we can give her the benefit of the doubt (she's tired, stressed, gosh it's hard looking after children, how annoying he didn't take the kid out immediately etc) surely we can also see that it makes him hugely anxious to be cut off and huffed at, particularly when he knows from previous experience what's
likely to come next, and how much enormous rage she's got? So it's hard for them both to communicate as effectively as they could.