To not allow DC to go to this funeral?

[PlasticBagMillionaire]

XFIL recently died and XH wants to take our DC aged 8 & 5 to the funeral which is being held on a school day during the first week back.

Initially I said he could take them but having thought about it some more, I'm not sure I'm happy about it for several reasons.

1. it's during school hours. Last year he took them on a term time holiday against my wishes which resulted in me being threatened with education welfare even though the head had authorised the holiday. I don't want them to miss school, particularly during the first week when they're settling back in. Initially I thought the funeral would be this week when I said yes so this has helped change my opinion.

2. I think my 5yo is too young to go.

3. they barely knew him. XH didn't speak to his dad for years due to a huge falling out and afaik only got back in touch after we separated. My DC know that he has died, and they seem OK with the news. He was very ill and I have discussed death etc with them before and since the news.

4. I don't think he deserves to parade our DC in front of his family (which is what I suspect his true motives are). He doesn't pay maintenance any more and was always behind with it before, constantly cancels having them on his contact, is borderline neglectful when they're in his care. Basically, he's a poor excuse for a father and never ever considers their welfare and leaves all caring and financial obligations to me. It sounds spiteful and probably is but I've had enough of him getting the good bits of parenting without any of the responsibility. There's a huge backstory with so many examples of this.

So, AIBU to tell him that they can't go?

I've taken mine for grandparents and great grandparents but no one else. They were close to them all and have never attended the crematorium or cemetery, just church services and wakes (which we called grandmas goodbye party) I would not take them to the funeral of someone they didn't know very well.

I would definitely not let them go in your circumstances. Don't let him bully you and ensure school know he isn't allowed to pick them up.

Whether or not your child is too young to attend a funeral depends on your child and on the funeral.

My youngest nephew, 6 at the time, came to my mothers funeral. It was sad and we all howled. It was also happy and he remembers all the nice things everyone said about his Nanna, the happy music we played, the dancing, and the ridiculous number of ice creams he was allowed from the ice cream van we had at the do afterwards. It's a important part of his processing the life and death of his Nanna.

If your kid wasn't that close to the person who died, maybe it's a good way for them to start to learn about death?

Some funerals I've been to would be awful for kids to attend, so it depends.

Your other reasons for not wanting them to go don't sound like they're primarily about the welfare of your DC. Understandable though they may be.

Does he have parental responsibility? If he does, how will you stop him? Is there a contact order that means you'd have to give him permission to have them on 'your' day?

I think that death often brings perspective to a relationship even if it was difficult in life, and while he is your Ex-FIL, they did not divorce your Ex-H so he is still their paternal grandfather. For that reason they should be allowed to go.

Your reasons re. Maintenance, crap parenting, etc. are all irrelevant here. You don't have to be a good parent to experience grief and you shouldn't have to pass a parenting test to have your children at your parent's funeral.

I think it's clear that you're letting your feelings towards your Ex-H dominate this decision.

My DCs weren't particularly close to the great grandparents, mainly due to age/distance (one couldn't even be bothered to send a card for DD's birth because she "already had 12 g-grand children"). We went to support the family.

I don't think that you need to see the involvement of the educational welfare officer as a threat necessarily. You could explain your position and what your ex has been doing with the agreement of the head and you may well find that you gain a useful ally.

You should let them go. He is their dad.

It's a difficult decision.

Personally, I've not taken mine to any funerals. My eldest has AS and would find the emotions confusing, and my second is early teens, so perhaps coming close to the age where I'd ask him if he wanted to go.

My DCs were 3 and 6 when my MIL passed away and we took them to the funeral.

YANBU because they didn't really know him that well and your Ex isn't the best of dad's, so why does he want them there.

The school won't have a problem with it being a funeral, but it's the motives of your Ex that would bother ME.

In your position I'd say No.

I wouldn't let them go, not necessarily because they are too young but because their father cannot be trusted to handle the situation in an appropriate and sensitive way. If you were attending that would be different.
I presume that because they don't see their father very often that your DC will not have very close relationships with other paternal relatives who could be relied upon to comfort the children either.
I also think the first week back at school is important.
Stick to your guns Plastic and do what you know is in the best interests of your DC. Their father has demonstrated that he cannot be relied upon to put their interests first.
Good luck

Each child is different and a mother knows best. Trust your instincts however like another miner said, is their a compromise that you could make? Could you take them to the wake. Normally emotions have settled and family are still there, and it will probably be after school, or at least after lunch time, depending how far away you live.
If your ex is as bad as you say do you really want him to be able to trump, "but you wouldn't let me take my kids to their grandads funeral" every time you disagree on something? Good luck, it's a tricky one.
is your 8 yo, old enough to decide wether they wish to go? Some kids are older than their years. But like you said, they weren't close to their grandfather.

Why does he need your permission to take his children to his fathers funeral?

If you are worried about him not looking after them properly then you go too, then deal with his parenting/lifestyle at another time.

*Why does he need your permission to take his children to his fathers funeral?

If you are worried about him not looking after them properly then you go too, then deal with his parenting/lifestyle at another time.*

I agree with this. I understand all your concerns but he is the father of these children. I wouldn't second-guess his decision to take them to his father's funeral.

admittedly I am Irish and am well used to children at funerals - including my own at similar ages at my parents' funerals.

Maybe talk to your ex, who will be grieving no matter how difficult the relationship with his late father, and suggest that you bring them and take them away so he can participate etc.

But really I don't think this is a time to say to the father of your children that his opinion as a parent doesn't matter. If someone told me I couldn't bring my children to my parents' funerals I would have been beyond devastated.

In your case, OP, I would say to ex, fine, I will go too so I can take them away when you need to deal with the adult stuff.

PlasticBagMillionaire I am sorry you are having this issue,1) it's during school hours. Last year he took them on a term time holiday against my wishes which resulted in me being threatened with education welfare even though the head had authorised the holiday. I don't want them to miss school, particularly during the first week when they're settling back in. Initially I thought the funeral would be this week when I said yes so this has helped change my opinion.

2. I think my 5yo is too young to go.

3. they barely knew him. XH didn't speak to his dad for years due to a huge falling out and afaik only got back in touch after we separated. My DC know that he has died, and they seem OK with the news. He was very ill and I have discussed death etc with them before and since the news.

4. I don't think he deserves to parade our DC in front of his family (which is what I suspect his true motives are). He doesn't pay maintenance any more and was always behind with it before, constantly cancels having them on his contact, is borderline neglectful when they're in his care. Basically, he's a poor excuse for a father and never ever considers their welfare and leaves all caring and financial obligations to me. It sounds spiteful and probably is but I've had enough of him getting the good bits of parenting without any of the responsibility. There's a huge backstory with so many examples of this.

So, AIBU to tell him that they can't go?

PlasticBagMillionaire I am sorry you are having this issue,1) it's during school hours. Last year he took them on a term time holiday against my wishes which resulted in me being threatened with education welfare even though the head had authorised the holiday. I don't want them to miss school, particularly during the first week when they're settling back in. Initially I thought the funeral would be this week when I said yes so this has helped change my opinion.

2. I think my 5yo is too young to go.

3. they barely knew him. XH didn't speak to his dad for years due to a huge falling out and afaik only got back in touch after we separated. My DC know that he has died, and they seem OK with the news. He was very ill and I have discussed death etc with them before and since the news.

4. I don't think he deserves to parade our DC in front of his family (which is what I suspect his true motives are). He doesn't pay maintenance any more and was always behind with it before, constantly cancels having them on his contact, is borderline neglectful when they're in his care. Basically, he's a poor excuse for a father and never ever considers their welfare and leaves all caring and financial obligations to me. It sounds spiteful and probably is but I've had enough of him getting the good bits of parenting without any of the responsibility. There's a huge backstory with so many examples of this.

So, AIBU to tell him that they can't go?

Thanks again everyone for the further replies.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to attend myself and I doubt I would be welcome anyway. If things were different and I could be there to take them home if it got difficult/comfort them, then I might feel differently.

PPs have suggested that the crap parenting is irrelevant to the situation but I don't see it that way. He does have PR and there are no court orders regarding contact but has actually asked my permission which I think shows his state of mind when it comes to the DC. In essence, they are my responsibility and he 'sees' them on his contact (when he can be bothered). Increasingly I'm having to act as the sole parent and so these decisions fall to me to make. I honestly wish I could trust him to take them and trust he would be responsible and stay sober and take his cue from them about whether they were coping. But that isn't how things are unfortunately. Just recently he drove off with just one of our DC and took her on a caravan holiday alone because the other was getting upset about the thought of leaving me. I called him a few minutes later once I'd calmed her down but he wouldn't come back for her. He's just got no patience at all. It's also the first funeral they will have been to so I don't know how they will react.

As I mentioned in my op, my DC are having a difficult time adjusting to our separation. They've both reacted very differently. The eldest is struggling massively to the point where I'm begging CAHMS to help (they're not interested) and the youngest is so clingy with me, she absolutely hates going to her dad's. I'm really keen to avoid any further disruptions to their life including taking a whole day off school in the first week back.

My gut feeling is that this will not help my DC grieve for their grandfather and that their emotional welfare will not be XH's priority on the day. However, telling him this is another matter entirely. I hate being put in this position - it's a no win for me and yet another responsibility I'm having to shoulder. I always feel like I have to justify every decision I make because I know I'm going to get it in the neck from him.

Oopse, I meant to say your reasons:

1. school - I would not let shcool be an issue for this, funerals are important, school should realise this.
2. 5 is not too young if the child wants to be there. I suspect they do not!
3. is more of an issue
4. is your real issue.... especially your update where you say that the father may not be able to look after them if he is drinking.

In your shoes, I would say....They can go to the wake after the funeral but you will come too too, to pay your respects or simply to ensure they are not too upset and are looked after. If he gets drunk or abusive, you will take them home.

If this is not OK with your ex I would probably say then no they cannot go.

By going to the wake they may be able to get in some of the school day if it is late, they won't be affected by the sadness of the actual funeral, and by you being there you can ensure they are comforted if necessary and well looked after.

X-posted with so many there!

In yr shoes I would take them myself..this man was their grandfather,and as such deserves respect in his death....I would be adamant they only go with me taking them,but that's just my view..

Sorry the bit where op can't go just flashed up as I posted..

He wouldn't come back for her?? Took one one holiday with out the other...wow he's a real charmer op.you are well rid, this is a difficult situation I don't envy you having to make this decision...what do yr parents think?

Sorry I meant to post your comments and add mine, but I hit the post button (twice) and now see your update is that you cannot go anyway.

I wish you the best with what you decide to do.

The fact your ex cannot be trusted to look after the properly is a huge issue.

Would it be possible for you to:

Consider a relative of yours (sister/auntie) who could attend the wake with them in your place?

Or

All of you (your ex, you and the kids) to visit the graveside the next day/week or the crematorium when ashes were scattered?

If not, explain to your ex the kids cannot cope with the funeral. I would (IMHO) leave his crap parenting out of it for now but stand your ground on the fact they will not cope.

If he asked why you said yes before and now no, I would not bring school into it, I would bring in the fact you are looking into CAMNs and things have deteriorated with the girls as new school year approaches, (if this is true/vaguely true).

Yabu and they are not too young.

If it's important for their dad they are there then he should take them.

I might have misjudged the tone of your posts OP but you sound quite bitter and I wonder if that is colouring your judgement? It can be very easy to make decisions based on your own feelings rather than what may be best for your children. I don't mean that unkindly but looking back at some of the things I used to get het up about with my child's father, I can't help wondering (now I am older and wiser) if I could have been a little more flexible to assist his relationship with his daughter. If your ex is unreliable, on this occasion as it is his father's funeral, is there someone else who is going to the funeral who can keep a weather eye on things and could ring you if necessary? I don't think either of your children are too young for a funeral and if there is a way they could attend, it would give them a chance to say their goodbyes with their father.

I agree with PPs who have said that you should take them yourself, unless there is a member of his family that you can trust to be responsible for them if their father either can't or won't be and call you to pick up if need be. Someone the children have a close relationship with (aunt? uncle? grown cousin?) who would be in a position to answer questions that may arise.

I'm sure if it were your parents you would feel that the children should be given the choice to go or not go, at least the older child. At 5 my sons would have been old enough to understand what a funeral was and what behaviour was expected. Only you know if your 5 year old is the same.

As far as their father goes, you aren't doing it for him, you're doing it for your children. My sons have lost one grandmother and both grandfathers and were present at all the funerals. At the first they were 2 and 7, at the last 10 and 15. They weren't 'traumatized' and remember the funerals as occasions where they said 'goodbye' to their beloved grandparents.

If he left your youngest DD, what will he do if she gets distressed at the funeral? Walk away from her or tell her to stop being silly.

Then there's the drinking. Well I'd simply say No to him.