to be angry with DD (12) re secret social media account?

[Mirabel105]

DD like most girls her age lives for social media. I allowed her to have Instagram and Snapchat accounts on the basis that they were kept as private accounts and that I would follow her (but wouldn't embarrass her by commenting on pictures).

So she has her Insta and occasionally I look at her ipad and look at her Snapchat.

This week I've found out, entirely by chance, that she also has a second Instagram account. I couldn't follow her on it, as she'd blocked me. So I asked another friend to look and found out this second account is public and has about 400 followers, at least a couple of whom look to be older men whose interests are teenage girls (e.g. their pages are exclusively pictures of young-looking girls in bikinis).

Usually when I try to discuss the dangers of the internet I get (from both my kids) "I'm not STUPID, Mum!" and/or they say I am "overreacting". I want to teach her a lesson this time by demonstrating to her the reasons why I bang on about keeping accounts private and not engaging online with people she doesn't know IRL (as she'd say).

It's not just the worry of who is following her account, it's the very deliberate and considered LYING that makes me angry. AIBU?

RebelRogue" I'm not so much angsting about how to tell her what I know - I don't give a f** about "invading her privacy" in the circumstances. She is my child and I am responsible for her behaviour. If I didn't know about her behaviour, that would be worse in my view. However, I DO want to have the conversation on a basis which does not send her spinning off into a "my mum is so controlling and unfair and doesn't understand anything" because I really want her to think about the effect of what she is doing.

Cloeycat thanks for that link, I'll look at it. She does tend to go into a massive decline when told off, even when I criticise the behaviour rather than her. There's a lot of "you hate me, you said I am really mean and selfish" even if what I've said is "when you did that, it made you look selfish and I know you aren't so perhaps you should think about your behaviour and adjust it."

It isn't 'bants' it bullying, well done for taking it seriously.

Heddalettuce literally all of her friends have Instagram, Snapchat and Musicaly. I don't have a problem with the age thing per se. I don't think a child is any more or less likely to use social media responsibly at 13 over 12. It depends on the child and that's the point. Mine has demonstrated comprehensively that she cannot be trusted with, or does not fully understand how to use, social media safely. I think that's the issue.

Sounds like she needs a good telling off. Shes 13 and has disobeyed you.

13 years olds don't need smart phones though. Particularly ones that can't be trusted.

Mirabel it was not a personal attack,so sorry if it seemed that way.

Not taken as such *RebelRogue", I would just hate anyone to think I was in any way making excuses for DD's behaviour

Can you buy a very cheap phone, with no access to the internet, for her to walk to school with? You can get old Nokias for about £15.

I would sit down and talk to her, and tell her you know about the secret account. Point out the two older blokes following her, and ask her if she is comfortable with that, how would she feel if they figured out where she lived? Remind that anyone can pretend to be anyone on the internet.

Let her keep her known ig account, but sit down with her and cull all the followers she doesn't really know. Tell her how disappointed you are that she has been bullying other people.

Go over the dangers of the internet again.

Take away her iPad and smartphone for a week (get her a non-smart cheapie for school for emergencies)

Tell her the thing you are most upset about is the lying. You real!y want to trust her. After the week is up she can get devices back, but you will continue to monitor her internet use. Any further inappropriate use will mean far greater sanctions.

I haven't RTFT but wanted to post what a family friend did when they found a similar public social media account for their 14 year old.

She printed off a picture her daughter had shared in her pj shorts and crop top, duck face and all, wrote the Twitter handle on it in marker, along with the world can see this, and posted it to the home address and then watched as her daughter opened the letter, and panicked. She said her daughter ran upstairs, she left her for an hour in sheer panic (harsh some may say) then she made her way upstairs and explained what she had done, and why.

Her daughter closed the account on her own.

DD has instagram she is 10 (flame away). The rules are private account, only followers she has met in real life, checks by me whenever I want and a weekly run through together of who the followers are. DD school did 2 cyber security talks one for the kids and one for the parents. The advice was social media is there like it or not and kids will find a way to use it regardless so it is best to allow use with open communication. We have had only one issue with nasty comments towards dd and that person received lots of comments back from dds friends that it was nasty. I believe with good education early the message will get through that it is not acceptable. For your DD I would screenshot some of her posts and save them to your phone then report the account and have it shut down. Once done you can show her the screen shots or forward them to her with the lesson that once something is posted it can never be undone and others can capture it share it and basically it can no longer be controlled and is there forever. Good luck.

I would like to shock her with the demonstration of how easily things can spread but all of the public content on her page is uncontroversial. It's the inbox stuff that is the issue.

You can screenshot the messages too and ask her how she would feel if they were passed to the friends mum or any other adult who she holds in high regard.

I think what needs spelling out to hr is that nothing on the internet is ever truly private and will never be deleted.

You may or may not see it, but someone else will. She is old enough to go to court and get a criminal record.

It might also be worth tipping of her new school because if she is doing it others are either doing it too or are on the receiving end of it.

As for a phone, get her a second hand brick from cash converters.

My 12 year old DD has these accounts too. Her iPhone is set up on my id and all the social media is logged in on my phone also. This is her choice as she has logged me out and her in and likes to be able to pinch my phone and post (drives me up the wall when she uses up my battery)
So I can see if I choose, at any time her messages, social media and emails. I check maybe once a month here and there but as she doesn't hide anything from me I am not invasive of her privacy. Maybe an agreement that you can have the passwords and check anytime? And if they are ever changed its an instant ban.
I would say that when I have been on IG I am shocked by what some of her peers are posting. Some of the 12 year olds are very out there with sexual type posts. I've shown friends and asked them to guess the age of these girls and usually it's around 16/17. If my DD ever posted anything as revealing or provocative as that it would also be an instant ban. It's the world we live in unfortunately.

My daughter did a similar thing and i now have an app called APPLOCK on her phone. It is downloaded from the Play store. It means i can passcode any apps I see fit, and I also have passcoded the Google and chrome apps so she has no Internet access either without supervision. Instagram, Facebook etc were deleted and i have passcoded the play store and settings so that they cannot be downloaded again.
I find it works really well and i would recommend taking a look.

Thanks again all. APPLOCK sounds useful though I think I am coming down more on the side of the view that kids are going to use social media sooner or later (even if I ban her now) and should learn what is and is not acceptable, and why.

My current plan is I am going to write down a list of some of the meaner things she has said - or told others to say to third parties - and present it to her asking her to tick any she would not like said to her. Then ask her why she thinks it's ok to speak to other people like that - people who are supposed to be her friends. Explain that if she does what she is doing now as an adult, she would be liable to prosecution for harassment, with a criminal record. And that basically, it's just not very nice.

Demand all logins and passwords and take away the devices for a week (or 2 weeks?). Monitor use regularly when reintroduced.

I think that is a good plan.
I don't think rebels is great, that would have scarred me for life.
The inboxing is worse than the lying.
How would your dd feel if it was happening to her?
I don't think having another account is so bad ( if that was the only thing going on) she's getting older and doesn't want her parents watching her every move.
I had sm when i was just a little older without my parents having access.
However sm was different then and i wasn't talking to loads of different people andgiving out private details.
Unfortunately your dd has shown she can't be trusted.
As for reporting her acc, how exactly do you do that on instagram?
There does not seemto be an option for reporting someone simply for being underage.

You could always put the shit up her.

Create a fake account yourself and send her some dodgy messages (nothing sexual of course).....extreme but she might realise you were not having a laugh when you told you to be careful.

I would get the Breck Bednar video and force her to watch it start to finish (with you) even if she gets distressed. (It's the true story of a 14yo boy murdered by someone he met on the Internet). It ought to give her a proper scare.

There's others including ones of teenage girls befriended by other "teenage girls" (40yo male rapist) and on the meet up a 13yo girl is raped.

You need to make her see reality somehow. Bans are just punishments, she needs to actually understand how stupid she is being.

I think I would print out the messages onto A4 paper and be like a police interview - show her each one in turn. She needs to understand that everything she has written has the potential to go absolutely viral. That potential new friends could read it. That anything on the internet never dies.

I don't think Breck Bednar is remotely relevant to her so she won't see any parallels.

You need to hit her where it hurts - public humiliation is where it's at with kids that age

And you absolutely can control her access to social media from hereon in. I wouldn't give her access to any unsupervised social media until the end of the year to be honest. If she's starting a new school, then this is probably going to help her navigate the whole thing

I hope this doesn't sound really harsh. I don't know your daughter and am only going by a few posts.

To be honest I would be pissed about her having a hidden account and the deceit, but I would be really concerned about the bullying/meanness/slyness of the messages. The truth and dare and 'just Bants' stuff is really queen beeish and quite nasty.
I'm not really sure what you can do about it other than getting her to apologise to the people she has upset or said nasty things about. Maybe see if you can show her some articles online from people that have been bullied and how it made them feel etc. Until her friends start turning on her I'm not sure she will really accept that how she is behaving is not so nice when it is happening to you.
I can only imagine it will get worse until she sees some real consequences to the nastiness and I'm not sure she would really listen to or respect anyone other than her peers.

Some things we do with our dc:
I can look at their devices whenever I decide to- I very really check as there has been no need so far.
They give me their passwords when asked without arguing.
No social media until the correct age-both my boys had Facebook at 13 and rarely use it. They don't post as they have been told bored to death that everything they post is available for anyone to see and could impact on employment later on. You could be turned down for your dream job for a thoughtless comment.
Do not go into private chat rooms with people you do not know well in person.
Do not stand naked in front of a webcam.
Do not give out your address, bank details etc.
Do not meet someone from the internet without talking to a trusted adult first.
Do not assume everyone can be trusted.
If you fuck up and make a mistake by breaking the rules tell a trusted grown up.

I ask questions where they provide the above answers and I get the eye roll but they are not allowed to leave until I'm happy they understand.
I also make sure they know that by making a mistake they are open to being blackmailed into more damaging situations. They know that I will be upset and disappointed but that I will help them to put it right and I will love them regardless.

In your situation I would be having a Frank discussion with my dc about what I had found and asking them for what they think the best thing to do is. I would tell them my thoughts on how we resolve this (no internet access/loss of devices) and reach a compromise with them (which would be loss of social media until correct age plus a month and no devices for a period of time to be agreed).
I would also be expecting letters of apology for the friends she hurt and for her to buy chocolates or similar from her own money.

There are probably lots of other rules we should be following but these are simple and straightforward. Trust is a big word in our house and I have always come down hard when they have broken it (when they were little, not so much now).
Sorry for epic garbled post. Hope it helps a little.

Install Netsanity

Shes 12? She lied blatantly to you and was very calculated this actually rings terrible
Alarm bells for me please be the parent and punish her for her actions its for her own sake op even if it feels mean

Update: Spoke to DD, asked her if she had a second account, she said yes. Had a BS story about why she had set it up. I said that I had heard from some of the mums at school that there was some unpleasant truth or dare stuff going on and that some girls had been genuinely upset. She immediately spilled about the particular exchange I mentioned further upthread. I said let's take a look at these messages then and went through them pointing out how hurtful it would be for some of the recipients to receive these messages. I explained that just because it's the internet does not mean it's impersonal, and that you can never know what the state of mind of the recipient may be on reading these messages, and that there are stories in the press about teenagers killing themselves because of this sort of thing. Would she want to be associated with that? I said that if she was going around school saying these sorts of things to people or about people, I'd have heard about it from a teacher by now and doing it on the internet was no different; it was bullying.

To cut a long story short, although she did start off saying (as I had expected) that it was "just jokes" and "everyone does it", she quickly realised she had no answer to "well why is no one doing it to you then?" and "how would you feel if you got a message saying your best friend actually hates you?". She got very upset about how she had really upset her friend and what she should do about it. I said she should think about that and we could discuss it later.

I told her no devices for 2 weeks and then only 1 Instagram account after that, and got all passwords etc. from both kids, for everything.

I think she got caught up in this behaviour without ever stopping to think about the real people and their real emotions, and how she would feel in that position. I think she was also quite relieved to know that I was onto this. We talked about internet safety too, and not engaging online with people she doesn't know in real life. I left her with the principle: if you wouldn't be happy for anything you put online (including in private inbox messages) to be printed off and posted to your grandparents, don't do it.