AIBU to go to a breeder?

[user1471379988]

I've always wanted a pet, either a little dog or two cats. I've always held out because I wanted to give my animal(s) the best life possible.

Now, I live in a very large flat (3 bedrooms and a really big balcony that I am going to split off, secure, and transform into a magical feline garden). The problem is, thinking about getting 2 cats, I just cannot accept that cats should be indoor pets. I don't care how much people say 'oh mine has never wanted to go out, mine is happy indoors, mine hates the outdoors' - the point is I could never really know that until I got my cats and then it would be too late. I would hate myself.

The one way I can think of around it is to get two Ragdolls. I've been researching and will do more research, but it seems these cats cannot be allowed outside.

AIBU to want to get two ragdolls from a breeder? Is the very existence of a breed that seemingly cannot survive in the outside world cruel in itself? My instinct is obviously to get moggies from a shelter. But... I don't know. Surely it would be crueller to get 2 moggies that are stuck indoors?

Before anyone suggests going to a breed-specific shelter: I'm not in the UK, they don't do that here.

Basically my choices are:
1/ Get 2 rescue moggies, feel guilty they have no access to outdoors.
2/ Get 2 ragdolls, feel guilty I didn't adopt 2 abandonned moggies.
3/ Fuck it, get a small dog.

Chocolate - I have a perfectly happy cat in a flat. I am ground floor though and he goes out when im home. He was meant to be indoor only due to a condition (but further tests revealed he didn't have it so he could go outside)

If cat is indoor only then I'm not seeing the difference between a house and a flat anyway

Our cat is a rescue indoor cat he cant go outside as he has fiv and can pass it to other cats. Maybe you coule look into adopting an fiv cat from a shelter?

ChocolateButtons15 - you're talking balls. Don't think any of my replies were childish, just taking the time to hear others experiences and weigh up what would be best for an animal. Yes, obviously, I have considered vet bills, litter trays, etc. You sound like a bitter person frustrated by the fact that you can't have an animal in your flat.

I also think it's balls to say dogs can't live in flats. If i got a dog Id be taking it out at the very least twice a day for a walk, and then bringing it with me to run errands etc as I work at home. You think a dog in a garden when everybody is away at work all day would be better do you? You've never lived in terraced housing with a dog barking 9 to 5, getting a brisk walk at 5.30 and then being ignored from 6 to midbight whilst everyone crashes, rinse and repeat, then?

Oh bog off chocolate. I fully invite you to come round my flat and meet my two cats. Then tell me if you've ever met happier, friendlier ones. I doubt it.

The good thing about a slightly older cat is that their temperament is more known and so a rescue would know whether they would be happy indoors. Ours started their life in a flat apparently dboy cat was always at the window wanting to get out. Dgirl was less bothered. They both like to be inside at night but dgirl goes out for about 5mins, as long as it isn't too hot, too cold, too windy or in anyway wet, then she is back in seeking us out. Dboy can be gone all day sometimes. Dgirl could happily live indoors, dboy couldn't. Another option is to harness train a cat, dgirl will wear one, but never goes anywhere outside the garden other than the vet.

One thing you might want to consider if you are working from home is the irresistible urge a cat has to sit on a computer keyboard, especially a laptop. Sounds minor but it can get annoying when you are working. Occasionally I have had to shut them out of the room I am working in. Not sure whether dogs do the same. My image of a dog when a person is working is of them asleep by their feet. Cats are on laps, walking across computers, asleep on the key document, wanting to be stroked when a deadline approaches and nibbling the phone whenever you have an important phonecall to make. I do love having them around for company during the day though.

Miserable as sin in my flat(!)

Oh and if you use a sewing machine then it is hypnotising for them, the thread moving jerkily along just asking to be caught. Hand sewing is even more fun, and don't even think about knitting!!

I got a rescue Persian 11 years ago from a so called 'reputable' rescue centre.

Within 24 hours he was peeing blood and a vets examination diagnosed him with:

1. Cystitis
2. Ringworm (which never went in the 8 years I had him so he had to be continually washed, shaved whilst under sedation)
3. A perforated ear drum where an infection had gone untreated
4. Chronic fleas
5. An eye ulcer

When I contacted the rescue centre, they said 'Oh Dear! Sorry to hear that, keep us updated with how he is'........ I was a student, young and stupid so rather than hand him back, I spent £4.5K on a credit card over the first 2 years to try and make him better and Pet Plan never paid out once due to always linking a condition to his 'pre-existing conditions'....

He passed away at 13 due to kidney failure and I had to make the most painful decision of my life and put him to sleep.

He was a house cat, he went out on a lead once a day, but I didn't want him transmitting ringworm to another cat, nor did I think he would survive outside - especially when we lived in an area where 2 beautiful Siamese cats who lived just down the road got shot with air rifle bullets....

I now have another Persian - This one is from a very respected breeder and after 3 months of having him, has been diagnosed with a heart murmur (however Petplan covered it due to no pre-existing conditions). He's never been outside, has never really wanted to and has the full run of the house. Due to his breed, he sleeps a lot of the time and unless he's playing with 'feather on a stick', is very content to wander around and just be near you.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, some cat breeds prefer being inside over others - However, sometimes you just take your chances - if you get one from a respected rescue centre OR a respected breeder, for Gods sake, don't trust what they say... and get your cat to a vet within 24 hours and get a FULL check up... that way, if you want insurance... you have it recorded that your cat was healthy the last time the vet checked up on them.

Plus - Every cat has a different personality, so you might get one Ragdoll which is really happy to be inside, or one that goes crazy if you don't let it out! You can make certain generalisations, but that might not hold true for certain cats.

munchkin also a indoor breed of cat

Thanks for the insight Persian lady! 😆

Here in the US, you can't get a cat from a rescue or a shelter unless you sign a contract that it will be an indoor cat. Obviously, you can do whatever you want, but they make you agree to keep it indoors.

We have three cats, they've never been outside, they've never tried to get outside, and they are healthy, active, and happy. The girls are 11 years old, and they still run and play like kittens.

interesting viewpoint Chocolate it of curiosity - where do all the dogs in the flats near you go to the toilet? I'm assuming as most owners object to shit in their flats those dogs (like my own 2 flat dogs) get 2-3 decent walks a day rather than being penned into a dull garden.

The benefits of houses with gardens are for humans - you can easily avoid a walk by putting the dog in the garden and are less likely to address separation anxiety as you'll be unaware your dog barks during the day. Thus dogs that live in flats are more likely to have anxiety issues and barking detected by people, and generally get more exercise - why is this a bad thing for the dogs?

As you've heard barking dogs I assume you've also connunicated this issue to the owners so that they are informed and can take some action? Or have you just made inaccurate sweeping judgements like on this thread?

Ragdoll are not some magic cat where none of them like going outdoors. Ours goes out on a lead but pines to go out staring out of windows and doors. People mainly keep their raggies in because they aren't streetsmart or might get stolen but ours is very clever and wary of strangers so she might be OK if we didn't live on a main road. You really can't tell if a kitten will grow up happy being a house cat so if you aren't happy with the idea of house cats in general I wouldn't get a ragdoll on the off chance it won't want to go outside, there's every chance it will hate being in a flat 24/7

Ours also isn't a floppy one and only tolerates being picked up, she is very aloof and likes her own space

Can I ask why you're so against indoor cats in principle? Their life expectancy is much higher, no chance of being knocked down by cars, getting into fights with other cats or people who just don't like cats taking it out of them. I have a nearly 2 year old rag doll cross who has never been outside by herself but I decided to harness train her from about 3 months old. Other than a little resistance at first she took to it very well and we now go for walks around the neighbourhood whenever it's dry. I also take her to parks in the summer the way people take their dogs. No issues with other people, strange dogs etc and she's very confident on the lead.

To the people who think having dogs in flats is cruel - it's no less cruel than having a dog in a house if in either case the dog is being left alone for ages and not exercised enough. I live in a flat and have a herding breed dog. She gets walked minimum 3 hours in the morning including a daily swim, and she comes to work with me too. She's with me almost all the time and has never been left longer than four hours alone (which happens less than once a month) and I did loads of training with her before to get her used to it, at this point she's excited to be left as she knows if she's home alone I always put down a stuffed Kong or something for her. She doesn't bark, I've recorded her on various occasions and asked the neighbours to call me if I'm out and she's barking (rather than having them sitting annoyed). We live in a dog friendly city though so as I say she goes almost everywhere with me including to restaurants etc.

I don't know anyone who exercises their dog as much as I do, most people I know seem to think having a garden makes up for not walking their dog which is ridiculous!

Sorry for the rant, it's lazy owners who are cruel, not people who have dogs in flats unless they are also lazy owners!

Dogs make REALLY crap cat substitutes, believe me I have been to a few clients who made this choice for what they did truly believe were the right reasons.. but it ended up badly wrong for everyone concerned.

A dog in an above ground flat/apartment is hard work, particularly a puppy - even if you intend to train them to use the balcony with a dog-toilet on it, its still necessary to train them from an early age to use the real outdoors and that means trundling up and down the stairs carrying a puppy MANY times a day - you'll be looking at around 4 weeks off work because you really can't socialise a pup and toilet train them AND work, effectively - (people do, but theres mistakes, and its not effective and by the time they realise this its too late).

Go to a good breeder, get a pair of Ragdoll kittens - you know what you are getting you know what to expect, presumably you have done your research and Ragdoll behaviour is within the realms of what you can cope with, provide for and enjoy.

I know indoor cats who cope and indoor cats who are frankly driven mad by it - Ragdolls are fabulous for indoors as are a few other breeds, and getting a boy and a girl means they will amuse one another too (getting two of the same gender means they are more likely to fall out but cat litter mates are usually pretty good, probably why people assume dog litter mates will be and they are absolutely NOT!)..

Go for it!

Funnily enough a couple of lazy owners let their dogs poo on the walk ways/pavements in communal areas which has been an issue. Also once saw next doors dog wee on the balcony which went onto the flat belows washing! There have also been a few stray cats when people have moved on and not taken them. Deffs do not want an animal in the flat, just feel sorry for the dogs in my block! It's not an isolated thing, there have been letters from HA saying people will have to remove animals if it continued. Not saying your going to do any of these things and it sounds like you wouldnt dream of it but having a dog in a flat is impractical and can be annoying for neighbours

Thank you Widdlin, thanks for taking the time to reply!

It's not a popular idea (on here at least) but the reality is that the vast amount of pedigree animals are indoor. You just don't see a lot of ragdolls and Persians and bengals wandering about and it's not because they don't exist. Do what's right for you but to me the idea of indoor cats isn't inherently cruel, you just need to make sure that the environment is appropriate. My outdoor run keeps them safe but gives them an alternative to the house and I would really recommend it if you have the space, but my two boys were happy as Larry for five years in flats. Also, if they are indoor then what's the difference between a flat and a house? I have a house but my SIL's massive flat is way bigger...

Good points by people about taking a dog to the loo up and down flights of stairs, I hadn't thought of that.

Cats it is then OP! Get a couple of ragdolls and enjoy them.

Oh definitely don't train a puppy to use the balcony for a temporary loo, gross. I just made a point with mines to take her out every four hours at first plus always after a meal or a sleep. I gradually increased the time as she was able to last longer until she could last the night. We had very few accidents that way after we figured out her toilet schedule. It was hard work taking her out that often and I'd have loved to have been able to get out of bed and just open a back door so she could go pee in the garden, but it was worth it. I think it's counter productive to teach them to toilet somewhere temporarily (and that includes on newspaper).

All my cats are indoors with an enclosed catio as you said and they are very happy, certainly don't moan to go out or anything. You don't see pedigree cats wondering around the streets but they do exist!!
Go for a cat!!

MTBMUMMY

You're lovely. We have a thing over here in the US called fospice care. People as kind as yourself take the older, sick and dying cats to their homes to live the rest of their lives in peace.

to you.

Remember too with a dog they must go out come rain or shine, hot or cold and if you fancy a 5 mile hike or are tucked up in bed with the flu. If you are ill then a cat (if you are lucky) will just curl up next to you and fill the litter tray a little more than usual. A dog will be whining at the door with the lead. Do you already go out and exercise every 4hrs or is this something that you will do? If you decide to go for a dog maybe spend a month conciously going out every 4hrs and having a walk, every day come rain or shine. Also you need to think about what you will do when you come back to UK to visit. Will they come with you? Cats can stay home alone with someone popping in to feed them and clean litter trays. Dogs need someone with them, especially if they are used to you being there 24/7. If you don't take them then who will have the dog?

I've had cats all my life and raggies several years when I first fell in love with Henry The Ragdoll.
Beautiful breed. Excellent temperament. Dog like, loving cuddly etc.
Best kept indoors.
Some of mine, including Henry (of my name) were rescue, some are from breeders.
Look for registered breeders that do all the right things. Mine was an incredible breeder and her raggies were not only breath taking beautiful but also intelligent and chilled.
Contrary to popular belief there are rescue centres for Ragdolls. There's a group on FB Ragdolls Cats UK, (closed group) they have excellent info and people always go out of their way to help and they know of the rescue centres. Also, when someone finds a Raggie in need of rehoming, they all chip in to help.
Just don't buy cheap from any website. Ask me anything. I'm Ragdolls mad.