to think that we should pay more in tax?!

[MenMust]

I am wondering whether tax rates should go up rather than public services being cut. When I first started working tax rates were around 33% and now they are down to 20% and services are being cut. More tax should be raised from large companies and from the rich but I also think that if we want to keep our services including the NHS then we all maybe need to pay more in tax. any views on this?

The personal allowance is fine, it incentivises people to work and those on lower incomes have a much higher propensity to consume so this also boosts aggregate demand leading to economic growth.

Cuts to the tax rate of the top doesn't lead to growth, or lead to average income growth, or job creation.

Take away the ability to avoid tax, I advocate that too

And how would you do that..? That statement is about as useful as saying you are in favour of wold peace and an end to hunger

There are a number of ways you can do it. They have been suggested by lots of economists, its far too detailed to make a post on it here. It is possible!

Personally I would rather pay more tax than see further cuts (particularly to the nhs).

I think higher (slightly higher) taxes will need to be paid by most people. If you try and squeeze the rich they will just fuck off somewhere else.

Can't believe all the people who are saying personal allowances should be slashed or even (one poster) got rid of altogether. Do you really think people should be paying tax before they can feed themselves and their children, get a basic roof over their heads etc? A large personal allowance is surely a big incentive to go out and earn/become less welfare dependent?

Income tax originally began as a tax on the wealthier members of society only - to fund the Napoleonic war I believe - (and was supposed to be a temporary thing!). Over the years it has shifted so that most people pay some. Someone said it was the Tories that have increased the personal allowance massively over the last few years - I think that was absolutely the right thing to do (even though I never vote for them!)

It was a liberal Democrat policy.

Problem is how much more tax and which better services? Should more money fund NHS care for the elderly? University fees? Social workers? Anti terrorism policies? Swimming for children? Libraries? Railways? Investment in power generation?

Which tax is going to increase? Companies can pay more tax, but they can also reduce employee salaries and close down businesses.

It's easy to say more tax, better services, less easy to agree on the detail.

Good God No more! I pay plenty of tax thank you!

It is utterly pointless to tell individuals to go ahead and pay more tax then. I would suppose that most of us would like an increased tax rate for all above a certain level to go along with some government commitment to public services.

It's not just TAX but NI as well. We lose about a third sadly.

The problem is that increases in the top rate of income tax haven't been shown to raise much in extra revenues - the more money you earn the easier it is to plan your tax affairs, so they only 'catch' a narrow margin of people.

It's also very easy to be unfair and target people unintentionally e.g. Single parents earning over £50k who end up paying more in tax and receiving less benefits than households on much larger incomes.

And then the more fair you try to be, the more exceptions and loopholes you create and the more opportunities to avoid tax.

I agree, I hate how tax is always treated negatively, it's so short-term. I want to live in a civilised society with free education, healthcare and good state childcare - and of course I would be prepared to pay extra for it. It's just a more direct taxation instead of the current crap.

Including national insurance I pay 50% - I think that's enough.

Bet you don't.

They don't.

No thank you. We're already pumping enough money into a system with too many holes. Let's try fixing them first shall we?

VAT is not a fair tax. Poor people pay the same amount as the wealthy. VAT is not just on luxury goods any more, its also on essentials such as gas and electricity.

Crack down on tax evasion first. Stop high ranking tax insepctors writing off tax debts in return for a nice dinner...

Isn't it strange then that as VAT has gone up, the top rate of tax has gone down?

At the same time we have rising inequality.

Its a nice fantasy to say lets tax companies like Amazon more. Then we will have well funded schools, hospitals, buses, care homes and utopia. But its not reality. For twenty years Amazon made ZERO profit. But their business does raise VAT, N.I., P.A.Y.E., Stamp duty, Capital Gains tax, Capital gains allowances etc etc.

What more tax should they pay and how will you stop them from moving HQ to a different country. How many jobs are you willing to lose, to raise what money? Who will actually pay this new tax, the company, or the buyers of the product?

So when posters say pay more tax, what do you actually mean? and why do you think Ireland is appealing AGAINST £11Billion more tax from Apple

Why is it fantasy? Amazon made 0 profits? But the owners seem to be doing rather well, so do the executives.

Ireland's position is that of every tax haven, it benefits a bit from allowing firms to get away with fudging their taxes, not as much as it should, but with a population that is just about half of London's it can get away with it better, but it also allows Apple to route all EU tax through Ireland, so money earned from one country, isn't taxed their.

Simple.

I am only just managing on my salary now so would have to say no to higher taxes at least for those of us earning less than 20 grand.

merrymouse 's point is the key one really. It is agreeing on the detail that is the problem. I suppose that that is the point of government manifestos and where charities fit.

More tax DOES NOT mean better services. And it can mean worse services for some. We ALL want better services, but our idea of what is better and what those service are is different. So while "A" is thinking - "good my kids can all go to university" "B" is thinking "At last they'll build the by-pass in my town!"

"C" is angry at the poor provision of elderly care and gives money to charities that work in the sector. As her earnings go up she tries to avoid tax especially angry when the foreign aid budget is increased and her elderly parents are struggling.

Looking a charities in the context of this argument is interesting. It gives an indication of peoples' priorities, (often health), and willingness to pay when they see a clear objective, ( School Playground - single project type funds).

I can't understand the rationale of someone who earns £11k pa being in the same tax bracket as someone on £39k pa.

Why is it like this??

JellyBelli - I agree that VAT is not a fair tax - but none of the taxes is fair in my view. And I certainly don't think VAT should be charged on energy. (It isn't on kids clothes, food, rental, charity shop goods or books though is it?)

If you make a choice that you can afford an item then I don't think it is unreasonable that a proportion of that spend should go to pay for the other services that whether you are poor or not you are using.

If the poor don't pay VAT that is essentially prioritising a new armchair/kettle/day trip - whatever - over paying a contribution towards the healthcare, schools and infrastructure that are used.